Can we kick some real terrorist ass please?

[Whaleboy]

It's still a tactical threat because of the effects it has. The effects on the economy and the American people cannot be ignored.

The effects are indirect and while can be attributed to 9/11, its like blaming the gun-maker for the bullet in my head.

Awww the American people are scared, thus they must hit back to feel safer (although in reality its putting them in more danger). I was expecting more really.

so elijah. just for clarification, we prop their economies up so we should dump them and let their economies crash. and this will convince them to like us HOW?!

If you handle/spin it properly, you can say (to them, this is not the actual case), "you don't want us, we'll go", reading between the lines its like saying "see how you'll cope without us *evil laugh*".

Needless to say, if Bush was to handle this delicate situation, we'd be deep in the brown stuff!

[Whaleboy]

Tactically has no such meaning. If you mean militarily, say that

I would, were it not also for industrial capacity, communications, and other direct contributors to a nations ability to make war and prevent its destruction by a CREDIBLE THREAT TO ITS EXISTENCE.

[yavoon]

Originally posted by elijah


The effects are indirect and while can be attributed to 9/11, its like blaming the gun-maker for the bullet in my head.

Awww the American people are scared, thus they must hit back to feel safer (although in reality its putting them in more danger). I was expecting more really.



If you handle/spin it properly, you can say (to them, this is not the actual case), "you don't want us, we'll go", reading between the lines its like saying "see how you'll cope without us *evil laugh*".

Needless to say, if Bush was to handle this delicate situation, we'd be deep in the brown stuff!

its a possible solution but I don't see how u could win the spin war. unless u have some new weapon in propaganda warfare I'm unaware of.

[Whaleboy]

You ever find yourself really missing Fez?? Lets all PM/email him, get him back!

[Whaleboy]

its a possible solution but I don't see how u could win the spin war. unless u have some new weapon in propaganda warfare I'm unaware of

Bliar!!

EDIT: And a hell of a lot of weed!

[yavoon]

Originally posted by elijah


Bliar!!

EDIT: And a hell of a lot of weed!

and an extra large dose of wishful thinking!

[Whaleboy]

Well you know... it doesn't hurt to grease the wheels

[The diplomat]

Originally posted by elijah
Terrorism is a heinous crime, not an act of war.

This is one of the big differences between our two positions. I do consider 9-11 an act of war. Osama Bin Laden declared "jihad" and deliberately attacked our territory, killing 3000 Americans. By any definition, that is an act of war. As a result, we are fully entitled to respond with military force.

[Whaleboy]

This is one of the big differences between our two positions. I do consider 9-11 an act of war. Osama Bin Laden declared "jihad" and deliberately attacked our territory, killing 3000 Americans. By any definition, that is an act of war. As a result, we are fully entitled to respond with military force.

He is still a private individual, not a state, it cannot be a war. Technically, he is the head of a criminal organisation. Bin Laden is an idiot, his declaration of jihad/war on USA is not legally recognisable, it is the same as me letting off a weedkiller bomb in Trafalger Sqaure and declaring war on the empire. Effectively, thats all 9/11 was, except obviously it was a lot more effective as far as terrorist attacks go.

Again, assuming that you are entitled to view this as an act of war, which logically it is not, then a military response will still be ineffective. Beef up security at airports, give more powers to intelligence (to a point, I dont want hard disks being probed) and working more closely with the UN and other governments to catch those involved in this crime. And for heavens sake, stop pissing off the people who are vulnerable to the lure of the likes of Bin Laden.

[The diplomat]

Originally posted by elijah
Tactically, its negligible. Nuking a city, sinking ships, downing aircraft... that is tactically significant. Cut the emotional BS.

Emotion does matter. The grief of the families is real. That grief and pain counts, and needs to be factored in. The political and economic effects are also very real and need to be factored. You can't look at an attack like 9-11 from just a cold, "tactical" point of view.

[Whaleboy]

Anyways, I think this threads been worked to death, so I'm off to bed! Bon nuit!

[Whaleboy]

Emotion does matter. The grief of the families is real. That grief and pain counts, and needs to be factored in

Thats the point, it doesn't and mustn't! In such situations one must step back, see the big picture, try to be objective. Getting worked up like this will only result in faulty decisions being taken. It works the same with nations as with us.

The political and economic effects are also very real and need to be factored.

So the people that started panic selling shares in 1929 are to be viewed as Bin Ladens?? Indirect consequences shouldn't be included, partly because it is irrelevant and partly because of the sheer number of ambiguities.

You can't look at an attack like 9-11 from just a cold, "tactical" point of view.

Oh I absolutely do! I think hatred, grief, anger etc are negative emotions and decisions taken on their basis are far more likely to be flawed. By maintaining logic, rationality, objectivity and a cool head, one is able to enjoy the benefits of sound decision making and accurate judgement.

Anyways, I think we're just arguing in circles so like I said, I'm off..

[The diplomat]

Originally posted by elijah
Beef up security at airports, give more powers to intelligence (to a point, I dont want hard disks being probed) and working more closely with the UN and other governments to catch those involved in this crime. And for heavens sake, stop pissing off the people who are vulnerable to the lure of the likes of Bin Laden.

But those solutions are passive. They won't stop every single attack. You have to go on offense. If you kill the terrorist before we begins his mission, then you have stopped the attack right then and there, and you don't need to worry about catching the terrorist at security.

As they say, the best defensive is a good offensive.

If you ask me, the best terrorist is a dead terrorist.

[Odin]

Emotions make you act irrationally, elijah is right. Knee-jerk reations make the torrorists more recruits. Then again, all conservatives are irrational and illogica (i'm starting to sound like Spock ).

[yavoon]

Originally posted by Odin
Emotions make you act irrationally, elijah is right. Knee-jerk reations make the torrorists more recruits. Then again, all conservatives are irrational and illogica (i'm starting to sound like Spock ).

rationality is good. but elijah's solution is off in lala land.