Brave Iraqi Freedom Fighters attack New World Order Baghdad HQ

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Defiant
"Aaah, and a bright future it is. A vice president blown up, a president who doesn't dare leave the capital, and each little warlord that played ball with us running his own little fiefdom. Oh, and the bad guys still lurking in the boonies for when we leave, and the place is still a ****hole."

Yes, and I love the alternative even more, never attack, let the terrorists train and plan there so we can have more innocent Americans die here.

Maybe, just maybe if we leave them alone they will leave us alone, right?

Is it a feature of the two-digit IQ crowd that there are never more than two alternatives, whatever you happen to do, or nothing at all? Or is it just the weather or lack of coffee this morning, or something in the water?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
No. U.S. troops are not policemen.
Yo uopen all new cans of worms, if you take the attitude that they are.
That's been seen.
Hell. Read Michael's damned logic.

I am inclined to the view that we need a different force, a US Peacekeeping Corps for this work, rather than regular army troops. But until this takes place, we dont have anyone else.

US troops WERE policemen in Germany and Japan after WW2. Occupation is generally one of the roles of an army. Our army may not be well trained for it, but that doesnt provide an alternative.

We are in can of worms whatever we do. The world right now is a can of worms. Its a choice of less bad options. So unless you can show a less bad option, just saying "US troops are not policemen" doesnt provide an answer.

[SlowwHand]

We've seen how leaving them alone works, haven't we?
Left them alone until a big dump appeared in the middle of Manhattan.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


Is it a feature of the two-digit IQ crowd that there are never more than two alternatives, whatever you happen to do, or nothing at all? Or is it just the weather or lack of coffee this morning, or something in the water?

In all due respect, tossing around terms like ****hole doesnt exactly invite sophisticated policy discussion. You want a 3 digit IQ reply, make a 3 digit IQ post.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by The Mad Monk
Interesting choice of target.

Were they that much softer (less secure), or are the culprits counting on them being that much softer (less resolute)?

It's a symbolic target, as the interim government is being recognized by the UN, which is charged under international law to oversee any transitional government. I think the real audience for the attack is the Iraqi people themselves, not the UN.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by lord of the mark



In all due respect, tossing around terms like ****hole doesnt exactly invite sophisticated policy discussion. You want a 3 digit IQ reply, make a 3 digit IQ post.

If you have a better description of Afghanistan, or other qualifying garden spots such as the Congo, Somalia, etc., then please share with us your adjective of choice.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


You mean the police force that we armed and authorized on our schedule?

The police force was armed and authorized behind schedule. The big problem in standing up the Iraqi police quickly was sorting out the Baathists. Which our guys, obviously, were not equipped to do. The Pentagon plan was, apparently, to use the Iraqi National Congress to do the vetting, since they would have the cultural and political knowledge, and local contacts, to do that.

State and CIA were afraid this would leave the INC (and thus the Pentagon) running things, so they vetoed it.

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


I am inclined to the view that we need a different force, a US Peacekeeping Corps for this work, rather than regular army troops. But until this takes place, we dont have anyone else.

US troops WERE policemen in Germany and Japan after WW2. Occupation is generally one of the roles of an army. Our army may not be well trained for it, but that doesnt provide an alternative.

We are in can of worms whatever we do. The world right now is a can of worms. Its a choice of less bad options. So unless you can show a less bad option, just saying "US troops are not policemen" doesnt provide an answer.

Do you REALLY want to get into comparisons of Germany and Japan with Iraq and Afghanistan?
If you do, that's fine; but be advised that I'll blow your little boat plumb out of the water if we go down that road.
Yo better think about it.

[Defiant]

"Is it a feature of the two-digit IQ crowd that there are never more than two alternatives, whatever you happen to do, or nothing at all? Or is it just the weather or lack of coffee this morning, or something in the water?"

Nah, I am not going to engage in pissing fight with a skunk, all you are doing here is pissing, moaning and b!tching with no real solution, doesn't even take a double digit IQ to master those responses.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


If you have a better description of Afghanistan, or other qualifying garden spots such as the Congo, Somalia, etc., then please share with us your adjective of choice.

A historcially violent, decentralized third world country, which was making major progress in the '50's and '60's, but which was set back by instability since the Daud coup in '74, and especially by the warfare since 1979. Its better off now than it was under the Taliban, its got better prospects than at any time since 1979, certainly. OTOH anyone expecting a Singapore anytime soon is a fool. It has a real possibility of making further progress know, although the optimal US policy is by no means clear.

And, BTW, the history of Afghanistan is quite different from the history of Congo and Somalia, so grouping them together doesnt show great insight.

Also I would note that Afghanistan came apart largely during a resistance to the Soviets, that WE funded, and that accomplished for the West the downfall of the USSR and the liberation of eastern europe. While the Afghans were left to rot. Seems to me we have an obligation from that to help them.

you can call afghanistan a ****hole if you wish. Everyone one of us comes from a country that was at some point a ****hole, or was settled by immigrants from ****holes. The use of this towards 3rd world countries today tends to reflect either A. Racism or B. An unwarrented implication of the inevitability of their backwordness or
C. An excuse for turning away.

Or sometime more than one of the above.

[Jac de Molay]

Originally posted by DanS


Not so. They have had at least 8/24 hours of juice for some time now.

Where? In Baghdad? Basra maybe? That still leaves out the outlying areas, especially the south.

Again, if this were the situation in Detroit, this place would look like Escape from New York. They should be so lucky the citizenry has restrained themselves so far.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by SlowwHand


Do you REALLY want to get into comparisons of Germany and Japan with Iraq and Afghanistan?
If you do, that's fine; but be advised that I'll blow your little boat plumb out of the water if we go down that road.
Yo better think about it.

I did not say that Iraq or afghan was like Germany or Japan. I merely questioned your assertion that US troops are not policemen. Even if they are that does not imply all policing situations are the same, nor does it imply that using them as police is always justified. Maybe using them as police in Iraq is NOT justified - but that case needs to be made with something other than the assertion that they are not policemen.

[Defiant]

"you can call afghanistan a ****hole if you wish. Everyone one of us comes from a country that was at some point a ****hole, or was settled by immigrants from ****holes. The use of this towards 3rd world countries today tends to reflect either A. Racism or B. An unwarrented implication of the inevitability of their backwordness or
C. An excuse for turning away."

Like I said our old West could be considered a sh!thole until civilized or for that matter, old New England from the British point of view.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Jac de Molay


Where? In Baghdad? Basra maybe? That still leaves out the outlying areas, especially the south.

Again, if this were the situation in Detroit, this place would look like Escape from New York. They should be so lucky the citizenry has restrained themselves so far.

Actually the outlying areas are getting the same or better power than under Saddam. Thats cause Saddam allocated the most power to the cities, which the coalition is not doing.

[lord of the mark]

BTW, this items is being lost in the news of the bombing
(CNN)
"• Former Iraqi vice president Taha Yasin Ramadan is in U.S. custody, Kurdish and U.S. officials told CNN Tuesday. Ramadan was the senior of two vice presidents in Saddam Hussein's regime and had been with Saddam since the start of his rise to power. He was number 20 on the coalition's most wanted list and the 10 of diamonds in the playing card deck of suspects. "