One of the most important political issues of mine...

[Worthingtons]

Everyone needs a 2nd Chance.

The German system is good, but not perfect - Employers do need a little more protection.

You should be able to work off convictions by spending good years once out, after 5-6 clean years the record should drop off. After 1 clean year businesses should be encouraged to employ(maybe through tax breaks as speer suggested) these folk and help them reform.

[St Leo]

The problem is that a lot of cons are cons because they have values that are antithetical to holding down a job: they don't care about rules, they're focused only on themselves and their own gain, etc.

Stop saying those things about conservatives. Not all of them are like that. Don't let a few bad apples twist your view of them all.

[David Floyd]

I have absolutely 0 sympathy for criminals. Oh, they're reformed? Well congratulations. Good for them.

But I think I won't take any chances - there are plenty of people out there WITHOUT felony convictions who need jobs. Once all of those lower risk people have jobs, maybe we can think about giving a job to a convicted felon. But I guarantee you that it will NOT be a job that involves handling large amounts of money, financial records, or anything else where it would be easy and/or tempting to steal.

[Al B. Sure!]

i don't understand this... alright maybe an ex-con will rob from the company... or you could have him most definently rob the company at gunpoint when he realizes crime is the only way for him to make a living...

it seems to pointless to be against what i'm arguing for... at worst, you get the same result you'd get if these ex-cons went right back into crime.

[David Floyd]

or you could have him most definently rob the company at gunpoint when he realizes crime is the only way for him to make a living...

Look. Immoral behavior has consequences. One of those consequences may be having a hard time getting a job, as a result of your behavior. But these consequences are your own fault, and don't justify more immoral behavior. Immorality doesn't justify more immorality.

[Al B. Sure!]

what are you talking about? i'm talking about the practical effects of ****... you just got out of jail, paid your debt to society, and now can't get a job... what the hell do you do? if you can get a good job though, don't you think maybe you'd never get into crime again because 1) you dont want to and 2) you have no economic need to because you got a good job you like.

you talk about these abstract things too much... it is more pratical to cut down on crime by giving these guys jobs...

[yavoon]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
what are you talking about? i'm talking about the practical effects of ****... you just got out of jail, paid your debt to society, and now can't get a job... what the hell do you do? if you can get a good job though, don't you think maybe you'd never get into crime again because 1) you dont want to and 2) you have no economic need to because you got a good job you like.

you talk about these abstract things too much... it is more pratical to cut down on crime by giving these guys jobs...

what happens when they get arrested again. a job is nice, but minimum wage dont compare to pushing crack. wut u going to do when an employer gets his store robbed from the inside cuz u made it illegal for him to access information.

to my knowledge crap ass jobs are easy to get. will an excon want a job that sux over a gangsta life tho?

[David Floyd]

what are you talking about? i'm talking about the practical effects of ****... you just got out of jail, paid your debt to society, and now can't get a job... what the hell do you do?

Good question. Maybe the felon should have thought about that before knocking over the local 7-11.

if you can get a good job though, don't you think maybe you'd never get into crime again because 1) you dont want to and 2) you have no economic need to because you got a good job you like.

I don't know. It's a possibility that a good job means one will not commit crime. However, this does not really mirror reality - plenty of people with "good jobs" commit crimes. And what does "not wanting to" have to do with anything? Just because you want to commit a crime doesn't justify actually committing the crime. And economic need? Are you really trying to justify committing more crimes, just because, as a result of your previous crimes, you are facing economic hardship?

you talk about these abstract things too much... it is more pratical to cut down on crime by giving these guys jobs...

No, the best way for us to cut down on crime is for each of us to make a personal decision not to commit criminal acts, regardless of what we want to do. It isn't my responsibility to stop you from stealing - it's your responsibility not to steal.

[Al B. Sure!]

i'm lost... someone made a mistake and they've now paid for it by being in jail... what ever happened to forgiveness and helping (or maybe i should say letting [ie- businesses need workers anyway]) someone get back on track so they never do crime again...

[CorpusScorpius]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
i'm lost... someone made a mistake and they've now paid for it by being in jail... what ever happened to forgiveness and helping (or maybe i should say letting [ie- businesses need workers anyway]) someone get back on track so they never do crime again...

AS.........the problem is that it only takes a few individuals to ruin it for the rest of the parolees/ x-cons........The individuals who are trying to keep their act together are punished.......Is it fair No but thats the way it is. If Lifes not Fair to people that stay out of trouble what makes you think that Life will be Fair to X-Cons..........

[yavoon]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
i'm lost... someone made a mistake and they've now paid for it by being in jail... what ever happened to forgiveness and helping (or maybe i should say letting [ie- businesses need workers anyway]) someone get back on track so they never do crime again...

forgiveness and helping are alive. they're just not gov't mandates enforced by suppressing information.

[Al B. Sure!]

alright damn... how about my original point? tax breaks?

[DanielXY]

@hardliners
Just look at it from an economic POV:
a) Make it hard for Xcons to get a job - more will again commit crime. economic Results: The economic loss from the crime, costs for police, courts, prison.
b) Make it easy for Xcons to get a job - more will not commit crime again. economic Results: new productive member of society, no costs.

Think about the money folks!

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Albert - here's why the hardliners here have a point, AND your tax break idea is a good one: it's a classic risk-reward problem.

By the time criminals have been released from prison, hiring them is a risk; they have already revealed themselves to be capable of and willing to commit crimes, and in all likelihood prison has served to reinforce their criminality, not reform it (that's a problem with the culture of prisons, but that's not the point here.)

Okay, so hiring an ex-con is a big risk -- so big that some people here say they would never do it. But what they mean by that is that the reward for doing it -- the potential reform of one criminal -- is not worth the risk they would be required to take on. So the key is to make that risk more attractive. That's why your idea seems good to me. Whether or not it would work is another question; I would take it even further, and allow preference in awarding government contracts to those firms who hire ex-cons.

[Jack_www]

THe reason why there is no way to know weather an ex-con is "refromed" or not. Second the employment market is not so good for someone looking for a job, bussiness are really picky about hiring people.
ALso I think people could care less about ex-cons that cant find jobs.