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How easily can cultural tidbit attain 'immortality'?
rap-like artforms have already pre-dated shakespeare... ever heard of bards?
"Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
"I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi
and i completely disagree with every bit of bull**** in this thread...
what was shakespeare and classical music during their times? shakespeare was a lewd playwright who, to most contemporaries, had bastardized the fine art of play-writing... he completley broke away from the established Greek and French customs and story-lines and didn't always write in verse...
who would have thought that Shakespeare's plays, which during the 16th and 17th centuries were seen as rude and inferior and nothing more than a little show for the dirty masses would now be classics?
"Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
"I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi
The very nature of pop culture is that it's not supposed to last. By that reasoning, Lord of the Rings shouldn't count here, since Tolkien was actually trying to create an enduring mythology. Lucas wasn't trying -- but then, Star Wars won't endure.
You want to know what bit of 20th century pop culture will last? It's not a work, it's a genre: the American hard-boiled crime story, of the Dashiell Hammett/Raymond Chandler/James M. Cain variety. Invented in the 20's and 30's, it continues to inform contemporary pop culture (think of The Usual Suspects, LA Confidential, and a host of lesser vehicles, as well as genre crossover pieces like Bladerunner) and has created a character -- the trenchcoat- and fedora-wearing private eye -- that is probably second only to the cowboy as an American popular icon. I really think it will last.
Beyond that, my money's always on the Beatles.
"I have as much authority as the pope. I just don't have as many people who believe it." — George Carlin
and because rap is really the only music form to take those crime stories and put them to verse and music, rap will last as sure as the stories of those authours you mentioned will last...
"Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
"I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi
and because rap is really the only music form to take those crime stories and put them to verse and music, rap will last as sure as the stories of those authours you mentioned will last...
I don't think rap will last. I think the spirit of rap will last, but that spirit pre-dates rap, and can be traced back to Mississippi Delta blues, among other sources.
"I have as much authority as the pope. I just don't have as many people who believe it." — George Carlin
Originally posted by Albert Speer
which during the 16th and 17th centuries were seen as rude and inferior and nothing more than a little show for the dirty masses would now be classics?
It's worth noting that there were several private performances of Shakespeare plays for the English Royalty during his lifetime. So they weren't solely appreciated by the unwashed masses.
However, your general point stands I think.
If I'm posting here then Counterglow must be down.
As for the "culture" around us, Hollywood movies and music will probably be looked upon as the "big pile of **** from the 1900s" by future historians. However, we will always have The King (of rock n' roll), "big hair" and "80s" will always be synonymous, etc. But aside from a few links as, say, Britney Spears = Slut, I can't think of a lot of the drivel that is produced today becoming a cultural thing, ESPECIALLY anything "high culture" like Shakespeare or Classical Music would be.
I suspect Albert Speer will come in about 15 minutes and tell you about how rap is the new Shakespeare...ah, it'll be a good laugh.
I didn't object to listing technologies (although for a technology to be a candidate it must not be possible for it to ever become obsolete). I just thought it looked like you were making forcecasts as to what things might be around for the next couple of decades rather than thinking *really* long term.
Originally posted by Albert Speer
and i completely disagree with every bit of bull**** in this thread...
what was shakespeare and classical music during their times? shakespeare was a lewd playwright who, to most contemporaries, had bastardized the fine art of play-writing... he completley broke away from the established Greek and French customs and story-lines and didn't always write in verse...
who would have thought that Shakespeare's plays, which during the 16th and 17th centuries were seen as rude and inferior and nothing more than a little show for the dirty masses would now be classics?
Good grief AS. I said those things are examples of things that have demonstrated cultural immortality and then I asked what recent items might get added to that list. That is an invititation for you to post your opinion not some sort of attack on every cultural candidate I didn't cite as an example!
Things only reach cultural immortality when they enter public domain and new works start being made based on them.
The way US copyright laws keep getting extended, most things die out and drop off the radar screens before such can happen.
Visit First Cultural Industries There are reasons why I believe mankind should live in cities and let nature reclaim all the villages with the exception of a few we keep on display as horrific reminders of rural life.-Starchild Meat eating and the dominance and force projected over animals that is acompanies it is a gateway or parallel to other prejudiced beliefs such as classism, misogyny, and even racism. -General Ludd
The only things that endure are those to which people can somehow attribute their faith; hence, the Bible, Barbie, and Bach - also known as the three B's.
Sleepers, awake!
What's big, green and slimy and lives at the bottom of the ocean downstairs from Moby Snot?
What I meant to say was that today's classics were yesterday's embarrassments... so all the people here saying that pop music or 20th century hollywood would be seen as the dark ages are dead wrong... if history proves right, they would be classics.
"Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
"I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi
i know but some certain people in this thread are over-simplifying **** by saying that whatever their elitist attitudes consider as bad will be seen as the dark ages while whatever little underground thing they like will be glorified...
"Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
"I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi
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