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**PLATO** · August 23, 2003, 20:32

Originally posted by Lung

Dare i ask....why? What does ever having been a slave have anything to do with it, and so what if i have dentures?

Seriously, is that just their way of excluding blacks, or is there a more obscure reason?

I find it funny that, just because it's secretive, people think it must be sinister

If you want sinister, just join my secret philatelist's association

It is not a way to exclude blacks. It comes from the middle ages and the apprentice system. The first degree of masonry is actually called "The Entered Apprentice"

Unfortunately it has been interpreted in some venues as a way to exclude blacks. That is changing now.

**st_swithin** · August 23, 2003, 20:40

Actually, a good litmus test to see if someone has been a slave is to see if they'll buy a slave themselves - anyone who has BEEN ENSLAVED AND EVENTUALLY FREED would NEVER BUY ANOTHER SLAVE.

To test to see if the person IS still a slave, ask them to do something unreasonable and observe how they react.

**David Floyd** · August 23, 2003, 20:43

What is the association between the Freemasons and the Knights Templars? That is, officially - I've heard the conspiracy theories

**PLATO** · August 23, 2003, 20:47

Originally posted by David Floyd
What is the association between the Freemasons and the Knights Templars? That is, officially - I've heard the conspiracy theories

You must be a Mason to be a Knights Templar. The degree of Knights Templar is conferred in the York Rite of Masonry.

**David Floyd** · August 23, 2003, 20:50

Sure, I understand, but I meant the association between the two organizations. That is, are the Templars a subsidiary group of the Masons? Things like that I guess, I dunno.

I guess I'm just asking what "conspiracy theories" are true? And more to the point, are there sex rituals involved?

**PLATO** · August 23, 2003, 20:54

Originally posted by David Floyd
Sure, I understand, but I meant the association between the two organizations. That is, are the Templars a subsidiary group of the Masons? Things like that I guess, I dunno.

I guess I'm just asking what "conspiracy theories" are true? And more to the point, are there sex rituals involved?

Sex Rituals?

Not that I've ever heard of. The association goes back to the formation of the Knights Templar and the Crusades (Please don't confuse this for Masonic support of the Crusades). The Templars excavated the area of the Temple of Solomon and found...uh...certain things shall we say(so the "rumor" goes).

**David Floyd** · August 23, 2003, 20:56

The Templars excavated the area of the Temple of Solomon and found...uh...certain things shall we say

Yes, as I recall the theory is they found confirmation of a...non-traditional...theory of the beginnings of Christianity, and the answer to the Grail myth.

Isn't it also true that the Templars were declared to be "a law unto themselves" by Innocent II?

**PLATO** · August 23, 2003, 20:59

Originally posted by David Floyd

Yes, as I recall the theory is they found confirmation of a...non-traditional...theory of the beginnings of Christianity, and the answer to the Grail myth.

Isn't it also true that the Templars were declared to be "a law unto themselves" by Innocent II?

It was the age old problem of what happens to you when you control more cash than the pope. It was actually Pope Pius (sp?) I think that aligned with the King of France to bring down the Templars (which they did not!)

**Spiffor** · August 23, 2003, 21:04

Why are you two guys speaking in riddles about what the Templars have discovered ? How does it matter today on an internet forum ?

**PLATO** · August 23, 2003, 21:05

Originally posted by Spiffor
Why are you two guys speaking in riddles about what the Templars have discovered ? How does it matter today on an internet forum ?

I promised.

**David Floyd** · August 23, 2003, 21:06

Interestingly enough, though, the origin of the superstition surrounding Friday the 13th is that that is the day on which the Templars were rounded up and the Pope attempted to destroy them. IIRC, at least.

To get back to the Freemasons, though, do they believe (as an organization) in what the Templars are alleged to have found under Solomon's Temple? And, isn't Paganism (NOT devil worship, that isn't the implication) associated with Masonry?

**Spiffor** · August 23, 2003, 21:06

Originally posted by PLATO
I promised.

Oh. I didn't know that was knowledge transmitted by the masons.

**David Floyd** · August 23, 2003, 21:08

The Templars were supposed to have discovered evidence that is contradictory to the beliefs of the Christian Church. That is, Jesus was not divine, Jesus was married, Jesus did not die on the cross, Jesus had and has descendants, Jesus wrote his own Gospel, and things of this nature. At least this is the story that I've heard, although I'm certainly no Mason or Templar.

**Spiffor** · August 23, 2003, 21:10

Originally posted by David Floyd
The Templars were supposed to have discovered evidence that is contradictory to the beliefs of the Christian Church. That is, Jesus was not divine, Jesus was married, Jesus did not die on the cross, Jesus had and has descendants, Jesus wrote his own Gospel, and things of this nature.

Well, that doesn't sound that absurd. After all, the divine stature of Jesus may have been invented by the Apostles (especially Paul) to get the uneducated people of the time to flock to Jesus' teachings.

**Spiffor** · August 23, 2003, 21:13

BTW, if anybody played Arcanum here, I'm sure the whole plot with the big monotheistic religion is directly inspired by the catholic Church, and how it made not-so-clean things to become more influent

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