Pax Americana

[DanS]

Yes DanS, spending is so low that half our army need to sit in Iraq peacekeeping and doing mop up, and that is in a state with a relatively friendly population: not one were we face widespread popular resistance.

Well, this would argue that there is no pax Americana. I might agree with this, by the way.

And the American people are not willing to spend much more of a percentage a year.

And why should they? It is not required. They know that. Clinton knew that. Even Rummy and the neocons know it.

The argument in the US is whether to spend 3.25% of our economy on defense or 3.5%-3.75% of our economy on defense. It's no big argument.

[CerberusIV]

Originally posted by DanS


Actually, the cost is not increasing and it has been very modest for a decade.

Currently true because the US has no real rivals, a reasonable economic position and no need to drive forward on major military programs. Most of what is being done, new carriers for the Navy, F-22, JSF are replacement and updating of existing capability.

Should there be a more prolonged economic downturn combined with a real military challenge (not the ones the Pentagon keeps claiming to justify current expenditure) the the position may well not be so secure.

Could the US sustain a repeat of the Reagan era levels of defence expenditure?

[Sava]

America should encourage Democracy, but shouldn't attack and conquer other nations in attempts to spread it. Democracy only works when the people want it.

[DanS]

Could the US sustain a repeat of the Reagan era levels of defence expenditure?

Sure. If it's required. But even Reagan spent relatively little on defense compared to his predecessors.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by problem_child
ps- don't forget the use of client states that do most of the grim dirty work, like the many regimes supported in South and Central America,

Who in this hemisphere are still US boys for doing any dirty work?

South East Asia and the Middle East.

They are nice places for bases, but the only US ally/boy with any real military capability is the Republic of Korea, and they have more concerns close to home.

[problem_child]

We hear very little regarding the brutality of the Shahs rule, and the US was very pro-Shah (they installed him!) Iran is just another nation on a list of resource rich nations subjected to the basic formula:

Install-Purge-Capitalize-Oppress-Rinse&repeat.

There are many nations, [over 70] that have been subjected to this kind of thing, which is why I just can't seem to shut-up about it, no argument justifies it, you can't wash it into being in anyway moral or good, it's just capitalist-agenda power-freakery, so I really don't get how the sponsor of this is somehow transformed into the nation that loves freedom and democracy.

[DanS]

Install-Purge-Capitalize-Oppress-Rinse&repeat.

OK. Now we get problem child's REAL agenda.

[TheStinger]

The end of the cold war should put an end to the US (and europe) supporting tin pot murderes

[problem_child]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


Who in this hemisphere are still US boys for doing any dirty work?



They are nice places for bases, but the only US ally/boy with any real military capability is the Republic of Korea, and they have more concerns close to home.

They all are, mostly wetwork is no longer necessary because that's mostly been done, but Latin American governments still mostly serve American corporate interests... take a look at some of the things going on in Venezuala and Guatamala right now. There is virtual child-slavery and massive depopulation for profit margins and industrial projects that won't benifit the local people. LA governments are in no position to look after the interests of their people (even those that are interested in doing so).

What do you think the Zapatistas are all about?

As for the ME, Kuwait, Saudi, Jordan... the governing elites of these nations all know who they depend on for survival. And if they need reminding they can look what happened to Iraq 'Under New Management'

[problem_child]

Originally posted by DanS


OK. Now we get problem child's REAL agenda.

Hey, I never pretended my position... Do you think tinpot murderer regimes aren't really a big deal because American foreign policy is ultimately morally good, even though the evidence says overwise?

Anyway, I would argue that even Communism did not justify what was done to these countries, never did, it was even aknowledged at the height of the cold war that Soviet Russia had very realistic ideas about expanding or global domination, (that is 'not much'). It was always on the defensive, only gained Eastern Europe because of ww2. And considering China was communist and yet one of it's arch enemies...

The whole Communist threat thing was mostly used to disguise imperialism as 'defense', because the American public would'nt abide blah blah blah.

[CerberusIV]

Politics - lesson 1. Get re-elected. Give the voters what they want.

lesson 2 - The voters want a reasonable economy and standard of living with decent education and prospects for their children.

lesson 3 - the world cake isn't big enough for everyone on the planet to have the same amount per head as european and US voters are used to.

lesson 4 - get your country's share any way you can that won't upset your domestic voters.

Always been like that, always will be.

[problem_child]

Thank you Cerburus, a little honesty, so again I ask... why the bull about spreading freedom and democracy, when what they really mean is 'America First, Stamp on the Rest'. You see, it's the Lies that disgust me the most... specially when this extremely disingenuose image that is portrayed is perpetuated throughout Western media.

[CerberusIV]

Originally posted by problem_child
Thank you Cerburus, a little honesty, so again I ask... why the bull about spreading freedom and democracy, when what they really mean is 'America First, Stamp on the Rest'. You see, it's the Lies that disgust me the most... specially when this extremely disingenuose image that is portrayed is perpetuated throughout Western media.

lesson 4. It all helps keep the domestic voters happy.

It's not just the US by the way, a number of other countries, including the UK, are happy to hang on to Uncle Sam's coat tails on this, after all they get to benefit too.

[problem_child]

Oh definately... so waitaminute- you've actually answered my question. Okay then.

Erm....

Right.

As you were.

[problem_child]

So how come the American public swallow the propaganda!? They have the vote but they don't seem to mind the hundreds of thousands (millions by now) that have died at the long arms of their governments! And the millions that have been tortured, kidnapped and raped at the hands of those governments creations just so a few corpos and their flunkies can stay rich!