Predictions of the 2004 campaign!

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by skywalker
But of course, silly things like the Constitution aren't important.

Of course, the constitution is the Holy Book, and shouldn't be criticized even when it allows a president to win with fewer votes than his opponent.
Was this document made to be carved in stone for the millenia to come ? I don't think so, a constitution has to adapt with political realities of the time. The State big voters were a technical necessity when the founding fathers wrote the Con. because of the lack of communications. It has no usefulness today, but is kept because the constitution is holy and shouldn't be changed

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by skywalker
huh?

Oh, some stupid crack about the 2000 election.

Notice that under the Constitution, BUSH was the winning candidate.

Only because SCOTUS interfered.

Anyway, many of the states are switching to proprietary touch screen voting systems that leave no paper trail. Most of the companies have very close ties to the Republican party. Given the massive voter fraud the Republicans engaged in, in 2000, it's not unreasonable to suspect that there will be a switcheroo this time. Because they are proprietary software and hardware systems, there is no independent verification that the software isn't rigged.

[Sava]

The smear campaign against Dean has already started from the right. I was watching Hardball today where this dumbass conservative talking head was telling Chris Matthews that Dean is a far leftist while citing Bush is a moderate. Matthews said, "What about Dean's campaign puts him on the far left?"... she of course had no answer... just like all the other talking heads.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Spiffor

Of course, the constitution is the Holy Book, and shouldn't be criticized even when it allows a president to win with fewer votes than his opponent.

Actually, for Americans it is a sacred document. Technically, skywalker is correct, since, as arbiters of the Constitution, anything SCOTUS says is Constitutional, even if it goes against the very text of the Constitution. So depite the fact that their final ruling was unConstitutional, it was Constitutional.

However, the fact that the law was massively violated by the Florida Republicans means that they won illegally.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Only because SCOTUS interfered.

What do you mean, interfered? The case was BROUGHT TO THEM. It's their JOB to make decisions on cases brought before them. How do you think the situation would have been resolved otherwise? Plus, is it BAD if SCOTUS enforces the Constitution?

Anyway, many of the states are switching to proprietary touch screen voting systems that leave no paper trail. Most of the companies have very close ties to the Republican party. Given the massive voter fraud the Republicans engaged in, in 2000, it's not unreasonable to suspect that there will be a switcheroo this time. Because they are proprietary software and hardware systems, there is no independent verification that the software isn't rigged.

What massive voter fraud? You mean besides the stuff engaged in equally by both sides?

[Imran Siddiqui]

So depite the fact that their final ruling was unConstitutional

These damn lefties and their lack of understanding about the Constitution .

The ruling was Constitutional and was based on the 14th Amendment Equal Protection Clause, and was affirmed in a 7-2 judgment. The 5-4 was what to do about it. End recounts because the day of the judgement was the day the votes had to be certified under Florida law, or let them have another week (not that the equal protection problems could even begin to have been fixed by that point).

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Actually, for Americans it is a sacred document. Technically, skywalker is correct, since, as arbiters of the Constitution, anything SCOTUS says in Constitutional, even if it goes against the very text of the Constitution. So depite the fact that their final ruling was unConstitutional, it was Constitutional.

It was neither a violation of the letter nor intent of the law.

The ability for a President to win with less than 50% of the popular vote is a) inherent in the electoral college (don't say it's unconstitutional, it is PROVIDED FOR by the Constitution) b) intended by the writers of the Constitution. It was a compromise between having it determined completely by popular vote or having it determined completely by Congress. The former was championed more by federalists and the latter by those who supported states' rights more.

btw, how did they violate Florida law?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by skywalker

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Only because SCOTUS interfered.

What do you mean, interfered? The case was BROUGHT TO THEM. It's their JOB to make decisions on cases brought before them. How do you think the situation would have been resolved otherwise? Plus, is it BAD if SCOTUS enforces the Constitution?

The final case was not brought to them. They reached down and grabbed it (which is within their power), but did so in such a way as to ensure that regardless of how the ruling came out, cote counting could not continue in Florida.

What massive voter fraud? You mean besides the stuff engaged in equally by both sides?

I know of no other state where 91,000 voters were illegally (and the State of Florida has admitted fault, in court) removed from the voter rolls, the majority of them Democratic voters. Furthermore, as of this writing, Bush has still not reinstated either those 91,000 voters, nor another 8,000 out-of-state felons whose voting rights were restored in the states where they committed their crimes. Despite being ordered by the courts in 1998, he hasn't restored them to the roles either. Finally, there were at least 3,000 illegal absentee ballots which were counted, most of them going to the Republicans. Jeb Bush and Kate Harris should be in jail.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Despite being ordered by the courts in 1998, he hasn't restored them to the roles either.

Ummm... in case you hadn't noticed, he wasn't president in 1998

[Sava]

he's talking about Jeb Bush, governor of Florida, skywalker.

[Sava]

Jeb Bush and Kate Harris should be in jail.

Agreed... along with Antonin Scalia

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Sava
he's talking about Jeb Bush, governor of Florida, skywalker.

Oh.

[Odin]

I really don't care that Bush won the electoral college, HE STILL LOST THE POPULAR VOTE! I don't give a ass about the EC, it is an outdated peice of sectionalist BS from the early days that the conservatives use to bloat thier power, since less populated states tend to be predomanitly conservative, that is why Shrub won the EC but lost the popular vote. I don't consider a prez to be ligitamite unless he/she wins the popular vote. F*CK WHAT THE CONSTITUTION SAYS!

VIVA LA REVOLUCION!!!

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Sava
Agreed... along with Antonin Scalia

For doing what?

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Odin
I really don't care that Bush won the electoral college, HE STILL LOST THE POPULAR VOTE! I don't give a ass about the EC, it is an outdated peice of sectionalist BS from the early days that the conservatives use to bloat thier power, since less populated states tend to be predomanitly conservative, that is why Shrub won the EC but lost the popular vote. I don't consider a prez to be ligitamite unless he/she wins the popular vote. F*CK WHAT THE CONSTITUTION SAYS!

VIVA LA REVOLUCION!!!

**** the Constitution... from people who complain about the treatment of the Guantanamo prisoners