Is Homosexuality a choice?

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by Worthingtons



DOH! - That was my exact argument - IF it was Genetic Evolution would have taken it out!!

As for seeing a Female, yes, i would say I'm straight - But when i see that female it is Natrual to be attracted to them, i dont choose it. My Argument is that Gays Choose to be Gay, but not neccesarily based on pure attraction - I think it is sometimes down to bad experiences with Women, or misinterpreting feelings for other blokes.

Well DOH! It's obviously not a genetic issue...although some genetic combinations may lend themselves towards a disposition to being homosexual...the phenotype is obviously far more environmentally dependent - down to things that no one can attribute...

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by Agathon
Again, does it really matter whether one's sexuality is due to nature or nurture?

Well I think it matters to some religious people.

There is a religious guy in GB, who is proud of converting Homosexuals into Heteros with the Power of faith, by letting them undergo some kind of spiritual purge which made them repent their "sins" and be heterosexual.

And I think there are a lot of people in other country especially in the religious sector), who claim the same.

So I think for them it might be important to make clear that Homosexuals made the choiceto be gay or lesbian sinners out of their own free will and so also can be brought back to being Hetero).

So on the other Hand it might be helpful for the homosexual Community, to get a proof, that Homosexuality is genetic and that there is no free will involved, just to take the wind out of the sails of those religious zealots.

btw. thats what Jack Chick (as an example for those ultrareligious people) made out of it

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0084/0084_01.asp

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0273/0273_01.asp

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Proteus_MST

Well I think it matters to some religious people.

Who have already demonstrated that they aren't prepared to take empirical evidence into account.

So let's ignore those who will believe what they want, come what may, and focus on the reasonable people.

These people will oppose homosexuality whether or not it is learned or genetic anyway.

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by skywalker
Nothing. Did I say it was? I have no problem with gay people (unless they start stalking me or something ).

I didn't realize this was a good/bad debate. I'm just answering the question in the thread title.

I have noticed this qualifier (as highlighted in bold) come in too many times. If it was a woman stalking you, you would be flattered...if it is a man it is something else. Why would it be any less flattering? At least you have an easier get-out (I'm not that way inclined, etc)...or is it for other reasons...I always get suspicious when people add that qualifier...

[Kuciwalker]

I would dislike it because it puts highly disturbing images into my head...

I know that some people do not find them disturbing but I personally do. I don't mind if other people do it, but I have no wish to have homosexual relations.

[Provost Harrison]

Nobody is expecting you to have a homosexual relationship, but why wouldn't you be in the least bit flattered by it? I mean, it is nice to know you are wanted...

[Kuciwalker]

Maybe I would be flattered if I thought about it, but my strong initial reaction would be to ask them to stop.

[Worthingtons]

[small] Originally Posted by Harrison[/small]
Well DOH! It's obviously not a genetic issue...although some genetic combinations may lend themselves towards a disposition to being homosexual...the phenotype is obviously far more environmentally dependent - down to things that no one can attribute...

But Many people in this thread, such as boris seem to think it IS a genetic issue, which explains me trying to reason it's unlikely.

There seems to be 3 factors

Genetic
Enviromental
Choice

My Argue is that each has a significance and therefore the answer to the initial question is yes, although it doesnt tell the whole story.
I would say each factor has the following significance

Genetic :- Very Small, but still possible
Environment :- Very Signifanct
Choice :- Slightly Signifacant.


As to how important it all is, I don't really know, I'm simply giving my views on Sava's question. I only thought Homosexual's and Homephobes actually cared.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Worthingtons
But Many people in this thread, such as boris seem to think it IS a genetic issue, which explains me trying to reason it's unlikely.

I absolutely said no such thing. I pointed out why your reasoning for ruling it out as an issue of nature was flawed, I made no case for it being genetic myself. I also pointed out that just because something isn't genetic doesn't mean it isn't biologically determined.

Ag: I am not now, nor have I ever been, a communist. Nor a sympathizer of communism. I am, at most, a Democratic Socialist, with a few libertarian social leanings. I happen to like stuff, and don't intend to let any commies change my materialistic ways.

[The Emperor Fabulous]

Originally posted by Worthingtons

Genetic :- Very Small, but still possible
Environment :- Very Signifanct
Choice :- Slightly Signifacant.

My uncle comes from a very catholic upbringing. His father was your normal irish catholic father in the 50s (so assume what you will.) He lost his mother while he was in his 20s. He is VERY homosexual.

Now, first off, this is not the type of "environement" that would "produce" homosexuality in a person.

Second...he has 9 siblings, 6 of which are men. None of them are homosexual, and indeed each has a certain belief towards homosexuality (my father supports gays, one uncle is a catholic brother and takes the Vatican's stance, one is an extreme fundamentalist).

How, then, can it be environmental?

(Keep in mind, this is also the SAME uncle who said "Why on Earth would you actually think I would CHOOSE to be this way?")

[Sikander]

Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous


My uncle comes from a very catholic upbringing. His father was your normal irish catholic father in the 50s (so assume what you will.) He lost his mother while he was in his 20s. He is VERY homosexual.

Now, first off, this is not the type of "environement" that would "produce" homosexuality in a person.

Second...he has 9 siblings, 6 of which are men. None of them are homosexual, and indeed each has a certain belief towards homosexuality (my father supports gays, one uncle is a catholic brother and takes the Vatican's stance, one is an extreme fundamentalist).

How, then, can it be environmental?

(Keep in mind, this is also the SAME uncle who said "Why on Earth would you actually think I would CHOOSE to be this way?")

(Emphasis above is mine.)

Could your uncle have been molested by a priest, or by another boy who was acting out after being molested?
I'm not saying molestation is necessary for someone to become gay, nor am I saying that everyone who is molested becomes gay. We all know that this isn't true by a longshot. But might the introduction of the idea of homosexual sex and possibly imprintation of that idea in the mind of a molested boy have some impact on whether or not he later becomes gay or bisexual? More religious people tend to bury memories of molestation deeper than others, as it often destroys their world view thouroughly, especially when the molester is a priest. In such a case it is much more like incest in terms of damage done.

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous


My uncle comes from a very catholic upbringing. His father was your normal irish catholic father in the 50s (so assume what you will.) He lost his mother while he was in his 20s. He is VERY homosexual.

Now, first off, this is not the type of "environement" that would "produce" homosexuality in a person.

Second...he has 9 siblings, 6 of which are men. None of them are homosexual, and indeed each has a certain belief towards homosexuality (my father supports gays, one uncle is a catholic brother and takes the Vatican's stance, one is an extreme fundamentalist).

How, then, can it be environmental?

(Keep in mind, this is also the SAME uncle who said "Why on Earth would you actually think I would CHOOSE to be this way?")

It doesn´t have to be environmental Factors your Uncle himself knows about.
Many thing influence people in their earliest childhood and, some things are even better acquired during childhood than later.
I mentioned the Imprint of Zebrafinches earlier during this Thread. They have a sensual Phase for Sexual Imprinting, which lasts from the 15s to 40s day of their Life. Any imprintings you make during this period (for example to show courtship behaviour on other species of Birds) remains stable for the rest of their Life and can´t be altered after the 40s day of their life.
I won´t say that humans could have the same mechanism as Birds, but just wanted to show, that Experiences in early childhood could have effects for a whole life.

So maybe, your Uncle doesn´t remember the events which lead to him becoming homosexual (if it is caused by environment) as they happened too early in his life, but their Effects had an impact on his whole life.

[MrFun]

If I went around asking all my straight family members and straight friends if they chose to be straight, they would probably look at me strangely, as if "What kind of a question is that?"

[The Emperor Fabulous]

Originally posted by Proteus_MST


So maybe, your Uncle doesn´t remember the events which lead to him becoming homosexual (if it is caused by environment) as they happened too early in his life, but their Effects had an impact on his whole life.

He doesn't remember events because there weren't any events. According to him, he's had a very calm life. He just always knew he was different.

As far as child molestation goes, if it happened to one brother it happened to all of them, because they all attended the same highschool and same church. According to my father, there really wasn't anything. If there had been (remember, Irish Brothers), they would have "taken care" of it with the priest.

[Japher]

Mr. Fun

I chose to be straight. The same way I chose the color of my hair, eyes, skin, talents, skills, abilities, likes, dislikes, etc...

I use to hate the taste of sheit, but I learned to like it, and now I really like it, and my dog and I eat it all the time....

Oh Wait, That NEver Happened!!!

Sometimes people just are the way they are and like the things they like, because that is what they like and that is who they are.

Question: What's your favorite color? Is that genetic? My favorite color is Hot CHick COlor.