Gov't Report Indicts Saudi Royal Family

[Boris Godunov]

I'm just glad to see a Finn who is so willing to sacrifice American lives for a cause.

[GePap]

Originally posted by The Mad Monk
Boris (and GePap), that's where Iraq's oil does become important. Once it's up to capacity, it can both supply us in the event of a Saudi embargo (or blockade), and break the Saudis on price. Plus, the new Iraqi government can pick up the Saudi slack on arms sales.

We have been after Saudi almost from 9-11...but we needed Iraq first.

Yeah, and that rosy scenerio is 5-10 years away, assuming of course that in the meantime we don't end up with an anti-US Iraq, or the country does not fall apart. Plus Iraq does not have as much oil, so the Saus will remain the single most powerful oil market actor.

Edit: and the Iraqis would not benefit themsleves form a long term slump in prices: their inetrest vis a vi oil match nicely with saudi interests, not US interests. Unless we make sure Iraqi is nothing but a US crony that serves as a gas pump...but then, that involves other issues.

And again, who takes over in Saudi Arabia once the Saud's fall? Those numerous and powerfull saudi moderates?

[The Mad Monk]

Given that "Saudi Arabia" is really nothing more than an invention of the British Empire, I'm sure we can come up with something...

[Imran Siddiqui]

Stuff has been leaking.

As others have stated, stuff doesn't leak too much from this administration unless it was planned to be leaked. I wonder what they're planning against SA... hmmm...

[The Mad Monk]

Iraq does not have as much oil, so the Saus will remain the single most powerful oil market actor.

Single being the key word, and only as long as Saudi remains in its current form.

[Pekka]

Boris, Well give me your passport and I'll go too

All I'm saying is that we need to do what we say we'd do. How's the most powerful man in the world going to look if he doesn't do what he says, when the task is not very complicated, and it is very doable?
It will have bad effects throughout the world not to attack. It creates an image of hypocrites.

But we don't have to lose the game. We need to put priorities first. I'd say first priorities should be helping Afghanistan and Iraq right now. And then we go after SA with hard determinetion to win.

IF NOT, then I don't honestly see what the point with the whole war on terrorism is. We can't leave the biggest ones free. I trust this matter will be taken cared of though.

[The Mad Monk]

http://www.atlapedia.com/online/map_images/political/Saudi_etc_pol.jpg

I just want this handy, for future discussions.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Pekka
It creates an image of hypocrites.

I think the image of hypocrisy for this administration is pretty much fact, given its actions. Steel tarriffs, restricting liberties, ignoring state's rights when convenient, and now covering up the Saudi link to 9/11 after so desperately trying to link Iraq to Al-Queda (and failing). Hypocrisy, thy name is Bush!

[The Mad Monk]

I'll try that again as an attachment...

[The Mad Monk]

Well, we certainly couldn't hit Saudi while our bases were still there -- that had to wait until Iraq was secure.

[Pekka]

Naturally put on a full pressure. Attack is not 100% necessary. But we need more than talk, we need SA to show actions and real effort to take out terrorists. I mean if we just attack, well the terrorists are going nowhere and we'd just have another mess in our hands and maybe destroyed infrastructure and heavy casualties as in SA's side, and whole bunch of new enemies. Full cooperation demands, and no excuses.

I figure we could give this one more to special ops, maybe few PMC's.. no need to send 300 000 strong army there. Get SA's full permission to strike terrorists where ever they are based on our own intelligence.
Because they're not doing it, and not willing to do it.

It could even be a new direction of fighting this war on terrorism. No need to invade countries with big army, just use minimum personel, try to attack directly on terrorists. Avoid pissing of the whole population.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
ignoring state's rights when convenient,

I thought this concept was killed long ago anyway. What's left for them to ignore?

[Pekka]

Boris, well that is your opinion. My opinion is that they have a good effort going on and it's a hard task to do.
Few mistakes has been made, but now it's a good time to straigthen up few misconceptions, that is giving doublestandards to known terrorist harbours. I bet they already have all the plans for it, but they are just looking ways to do it and analyzing possibilities.

and if my opinion is not wanted because I'm not American, or that I don't have a say in this, then fine.
American lives, someones lives, this is international thing. And my real name is Pekka, so you can call me that.

[Jon Shafer]

I tend to agree with Gepap... for the US to do an about-face and actually do something about Saudi Arabia is so unlikely it's almost funny.

Yes, politicians are hypocrites. No news there.

[Lord Merciless]

Why does everyone think that SA's border is permanent?