McJobs Threatened; Collapse of Capitalism Imminent

[Q Classic]

how does this cause a collapse of capitalism?

[Velociryx]

That is a potential problem, it's true, although to be fair, it should be pointed out that this problem has been present IN the economy (and successfully worked through) for a very long time (as auto factories became increasing automated, fewer workers were needed, and those who remained required new skills....as new technologies emerge, the need for wholly new skill sets arises, and job hopefuls compete to acquire those now-needed skills).

One thing that I have long been in favor of is to help shift some of the burden of the cost of acquiring these new skills from the individual laborer to the government (perhaps some form of grant or very low interest loan, or matching fund given to anyone who wants to get such-and-so-certification - This would strengthen the "social safety net" we have in this country, and make it easier for displaced workers to re-acquire skills that the market needs. You already see some of this, but IMO, it is an area that will become increasingly more important as the velocity of the economy continues to increase.

-=Vel=-

[Kropotkin]

I never said that this was a new problem. The problem does however tend to be more serious at some times trough history and less of a problem at other times. If McDonalds and other food chains erases 100,000 jobs over a few years time it would have some serious effects. Not that that's very likely though.

[The Templar]

Originally posted by Peter Triggs


Didn't some bloke called 'Marx' say this about 150 years ago?

Marx said capitalism would eventually be superceded. In many ways he was correct. Evidence? The rise of socialism and social democracy in Europe. Even in the US lazess faire has been dead since Roosevelt (Teddy that is). Well, until Reagan decided to let industries regulate themselves that is.

[Velociryx]

True, and good point....but in a way, a massive displacement like that might be a good thing, if it spurs the strengthening of that social safety net and makes it easier for the displaced to enhance their skill sets....not that I believe we'll see a displacement from Mickey D's automation, but it's entirely possible down the line, *especially* with the increasing velocity of the econ.

-=Vel=-

[Kropotkin]

Yeah, it might be a good thing in the end. But that's hardly any real comfort for those that ends up losing on the changes. They usually didn't gain much before it either. After all, people at the bottom has always wanted to stop new machines with sabots if nothing else.

[Velociryx]

Having been on the bottom, just as you describe, I know what you're saying....no easy answers, sadly. The more distance you put between yourself and the bottom-most rung, the less impacted you will be, but you may still feel it, it's true. The only way around that is persistence and determination, but there IS at least that...

-=Vel=-

[chequita guevara]

I doubt that very much labor will be saved. After all, you'll still need someone to remove the patties and dress them and move them to the front, not to mention someone to tell the machine to drop a patty.

Since these places typically go begging for workers, I don't imagine it will cost many people their jobs.

[St Leo]

At some point, everything except universities and libraries will be 100% robotized.:P

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Kropotkin
There's quite a few jobs that's hard or even impossible to replace with machines in the forseable future. Cleaning is one such job. Then there's a growing job market of so called back office jobs, like call-centers.

That's what people keep saying. We can see right now in the world economy that output is not keeping up with productivity growth. We call it jobless recovery, but no one wants to talk about the real cause.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
how does this cause a collapse of capitalism?

See Smileys firs post. How can capitalism survive without jobs? It can't. There is no justification for capitalism unless people have jobs.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
I doubt that very much labor will be saved. After all, you'll still need someone to remove the patties and dress them and move them to the front, not to mention someone to tell the machine to drop a patty.

Since these places typically go begging for workers, I don't imagine it will cost many people their jobs.

At first it won't work much better if any at all, but they will make it work better and better with time.

[Kropotkin]

Originally posted by Kidicious
That's what people keep saying. We can see right now in the world economy that output is not keeping up with productivity growth. We call it jobless recovery, but no one wants to talk about the real cause.

Productivity growth in the agricultural sector enabled the transfer of rural labour to industry. The increasing labour productivity in the industrial sector eventually lead to the service sector replacing the industrial sector as the sector with the largest number of employees. At least partly as a result of the low productivity growth in the service sector (in a longer perspective, no matter if there's a Solow's paradox or not).

If large parts of the service sector can achieve increasing labour productivity it seems like there's no emerging sector for the surplus labour to move to. Even if the division of economic activity into sectors is a artificial one. The bargain position of labour is not at all as good as it was after the war and before the 1970s, but that would seem like an odd period in the history of western economies. The future development is (always) hard to predict.

There's of cource a risk for a situation where a sizable minority of the population has little or no chance of achieving a decent position as their services are no longer needed. In other words; 2/3 of the labour is enough to keep up with demand. Could be a serious problem for the future.

[Provost Harrison]

The likes of McDonalds is on the way out over here. You can get better food and cheaper (or not much more expensive) due to cheap pub chains serving food all day. That has absolutely clobbered McDonalds here...

[Kropotkin]

I guess the idea behind McDonalds automatization tests is to lower the production costs even further. This could enable the company to keep prices lower than the competition that has no likely chance of investing in advanced machinery. It's however hard to say if this would save McDonalds in the long run. The alternatives will still be cheap, even if they are not as cheap, and it will with all certainty taste better. McDonalds is by all standards the crapiest crap food around. At least were I live.