a moderate turning militant

[Victor Galis]

It makes a lot of unsupported claims, and neglects to address the fact that legalizing drug use will cut down the number of prisons and other such spending.

[Q Classic]

I never saw Bush as charismatic...

he is not charismatic in the way that clitnon is charismatic. while clinton had the popular "hip" appearance, bush has the affable "regular guy next door" appearance, and that's what makes him so effective at getting certain groups of people to like him.

What a new slant in Bush-bashing.

btw, sloww, that's precisely the kind of political party-line hewing which i feel is destroying the very nature of our democracy.

Moderates and independents and all this types of folks also tend to be apolitical: they opt themselves out of the process, and thus have no voice. When half the elligible voters don;t vote, whom on earth do you guys think will decide the elections?
It is a rule of politics: the people with a "crusade" to wage set the agenda, cause they are the active ones that create the situation, and everyone else is left to react to them.

that's precisely why i'm beginning to turn into a militant moderate, gepap. we centrists shouldn't have to deal and react to the bull**** the idiots on either side heap upon us. we don't need the crippling energy policies that the right and left have been lurching us towards, in opposite directions. we don't need a ruined social security system for ourselves and our children because the greedy pigs want to fund their pork now.
we don't need to listen to the bull**** from the right how gays are evil and gay marriage is the path towards the destruction of the family, and we don't need to hear the bull**** from the left saying that giving up every last bit of our money is good because those who don't work must have a good reason to.
we don't need to hear jackasses from the right saying that sex education in schools is the work of the devil and leading to promiscuity while having northeastern liberals spouting some **** about abortion is not about killing a baby but rather entirely about a woman's choice.

logic would dictate that we need to wean our reliance on foreign petrol, but we also need to keep that sector of the economy strong until we can get alternative sources of energy off the drawing boards and actually apply them outside the laboratory for economical prices.
any reasonable person would realize it's not gays ruining the family, it's the fact that people are stupid and get married and then divorce at the drop of a hat. any sensible person would realize that just forking over money to people who don't work is going to do nothing but keep them that way, but if we want them to work, we'd provide a living wage.
we realize that kids being the idiots they are, they'll have sex whether we want them to or not. we'd be better served to tell them not to do it until they're married or good and ready, but not give them all the gory details about how to become master lovers or provide them with sex kits with condoms and pills inside.
it ought to be known that abortion is killing a child, it is a murder, but it is also the woman's choice to decide whether she wants an ugly parasite/fetus growing inside of her for nine months.

the right path is not hewing to the right, nor is it following the left. it's down the middle, where true compassion is tempered with logic and realism, where real agreement and compromise takes place.

most any successful (as in getting elected to high office) politician is a good fund raiser... i dont think bush or clinton are special. They may have raised more money than others before them, but thats just becasue others before them didnt need as much

true, most good politicians are quite able to obtain funding. but these two are so good at it that it's almost obscene. the instant clinton backs someone, donors drop their wallets almost as fast as he drops his pants when an intern walks into the room. when bush backs a candidate, people donate to him like good catholics donate to the pope.
people didn't do that in the past. politics shouldn't be about money; it should be about doing the best for one's country without having blinders.

again, i dont remember any successful president that hasnt had this ability to some degree.

these two, again, have done it to an unprecedented degree. clinton all but stole the republican's contract with america, and bush has taken many democratic plans and increased government spending an enormous amount.

name me a politician that doesnt!!!

that's what i'm saying. a lot of conservatives, especially the loud and annoying ones, believe that their little boy bush can do no wrong, can say no wrong, and can lead the country to earthly paradise.
it's bull****. bush has sold his soul, like all politicians, to the devil.
after all, a good leader has to do that, if machiavelli is to be believed, and there is every reason to believe most of machiavelli.

clinton, yes... bush, definately not

how does bush not pander ceaselessly to his constituencies? faith-based initiatives and opposition to gay marriage are wonderful ideas to his conservative christian supporters; massive tax cuts to his wealthier friends, and some not so wealthy friends.
how is he not photogenic? he looks like your average bosch, he looks like someone you could drink beer with on the weekend. he's usually smiling and looking earnest, even if he's lying through his teeth. how is that not photogenic?

[Victor Galis]

btw, sloww, that's precisely the kind of political party-line hewing which i feel is destroying the very nature of our democracy.

Are you sure the present tense is appropriate for this sentence, the past seems so much more accurate.

[Ramo]

Shrub has always been extremist. He's appointed some of the scariest bastards in the Republic party (Ashcroft, Rumsfeld, etc.). And he's still doing it; look at the crazy new drug Czar - Tandy.

[Agathon]

Be a radical! I've wished death on all the US presidents since I've been on this earth - with the exception of Ford.

[Victor Galis]

Even Carter?

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Victor Galis
Even Carter?

Yes, he stood by and let Suharto massacre the East Timorese.

Death be upon him!

[Dom Pedro II]

These men only have so much power!!

You know who we should really blame? GOD! He's got power to do anything and he can't even stop the East Timorese from getting slaughtered....

[Dom Pedro II]

bush has the affable "regular guy next door" appearance

I really don't want the regular guy next door to be my President... My next door neighbor is a 65-year-old elementary school janitor who never married, doesn't drive, drinks heavily, and screams to his dead mother during thunderstorms...

I wouldn't vote for him, would you?

[Victor Galis]

I wouldn't vote for him, would you?

Depends, if he ran against Bush...

[Dom Pedro II]

Originally posted by Victor Galis


Depends, if he ran against Bush...

[Kramerman]

Originally posted by Agathon


Yes, he stood by and let Suharto massacre the East Timorese.

Death be upon him!

wow... your harsh...

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Dom Pedro II
These men only have so much power!!

You know who we should really blame? GOD! He's got power to do anything and he can't even stop the East Timorese from getting slaughtered....

Unlike God, Carter actually exists.

Unlike God, Carter could have stopped it.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by ajbera


I'm not certain I buy into this, but as someone who himself is, in many ways, socially liberal and fiscally conservative, this definitely caught my eye and made me think.

Your Maggie Gallagher quote is so full of wishful thinking and leaps in logic, it made me snort my Turkish coffee out. So liberal policies on homosexuality led to A.I.D.S. funding? How utterly bizarre- I suppose liberal attitudes towards food are responsible for the American epidemics of obesity, anorexia and bulimia, the swelling of numbers in treatment centres and research into the 'anorexia gene'. Hell, why not blame F.D.R. and the New Deal while you're at it.

Tell me, do you think the 'liberal' policies and outlook in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran are responsible for their growing numbers of heroin addicts? Perhaps also the liberal social attitude in Soviet Russia was responsible for its alcoholism problem. And undoubtedly China's wonderful treatment of gay men and lesbians accounts for its H.I.V./A.I.D.S. problem.

That sound I hear is Maggie Gallagher grinding her axe....

[Gatekeeper]

ajbera:

Interesting quote by Maggie Gallagher. Suffice to say, I don't particularly agree with her viewpoints.

Gatekeeper