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**SlowwHand** · July 28, 2003, 18:57

I don't believe one entire side of a family fails, and the other side totally succeeds.
And no, no one is destined to fail.

**Cruddy** · July 28, 2003, 18:58

Originally posted by Pekka
... I was just wondering how the hell could they all be such crooks! That's what I'm wondering about. In the early 1900s especially! Man they were like a gang.

Fine line between crime and survival - and given police abilities at the time (low detection rate) crime was easier to commit back then. Add in much less of a social welfare policy and maybe it becaomes a bit easier to understand.

Not condoning it, just saying there are forces that encourage people to become career criminals.

**Pekka** · July 28, 2003, 18:58

Also one funny detail. My aunt is (well the just divorced) to a man whose side was also full of criminals! Just small time, but they also got to know prison. Drunk as well. Everyone basically a loser. I've met these folks few times I'm telling you they're not good folks

. So it's kind of funny how the two sisters found decent men, but their families were ROTTEN! And that bastard from that family gave me the baddest memory of my life that I remember, showed my his gun when I was like 7 or 8, and told me bunch of things about it, and I thought it was like a toy. He was drunk of course, and when he shot the gun inside the house through a plastic bottle.. man that scared the crap out of me. He was drunk too. Actually if I see him, I'll kick the crap out of him. So that's another 'web' in the whole picture.

And then one of them married (from my mothers side) a musician, that is artist. WTF?

**Ecthy** · July 28, 2003, 18:59

then what about those that do? losers by their own decisions?

**FrostyBoy** · July 28, 2003, 19:00

I read this saying a while ago:

While some people dream of success,
others wake up and work hard to achieve it.

It is quite simple, you make your life the way you want to.

Both sides of my family are heavy drinkers (more on my Dads side). I don't drink at all, I always said no to alcohol when offered to me. It is a difficult thing to do such things when you are pressured by your own family and their values.

You are free to be who you want to be, you are not tied down by your genetic make-up - because you have the ability to evolve. Chuck away what you don't like and keep what you do. Therefore, Enviroment would be a greater effect on a persons individual life than mere genetics.

**Zero** · July 28, 2003, 19:00

Originally posted by Japher

He actually asked three questions. Two of which are one in the same.

Why is one side of his familly successful and the other is not over generations?

and

Are some people just destined to fail?

I think you both (Zero and Sloww) answered only one of these questions.

wow you're right.

At least I was still right about sloww not having reading skills.

**SlowwHand** · July 28, 2003, 19:01

Of course, Andy. We have minds. Most, anyway.

**Pekka** · July 28, 2003, 19:04

sn00py, it makes lots of sense, that environment has played a huge role in it. If everyone you know and grew up with were criminals and heavy drinkers, well there's not a huge obstacle to do the same. I'm not saying they ALL were, but most of them were. Actually I didn't find any info on the other ones, who I think weren't criminals, or at least hoped so

And we're not talking so much the current days, but like 4 or 5 decades ago and from there on deeper to the history.

**Maniac** · July 28, 2003, 19:04

Originally posted by SlowwHand
A Liberian can't run for U.S. President

You're being semantic. How about this example then: if you say environment plays no role, you say that a boy born in a poor criminal neighbourhood has the same chance to become US president as the son of a former US president?

but that's another ignorant example.

Why? I gave two completely different environments. According to you they should have exactly the same chance to end up in any position. It only depends on their heart and hard work.

**Japher** · July 28, 2003, 19:07

My mom's side of the familly are a bunch of hard working entrepeneurs who fail all the time at whatever they try to do. They are smart, resourceful, and have enough to live their lives with all the time. Yet, they continue to try and scratch their way to the top (where ever that is). Yet, most of them get caught up in the top that they never bother to create a firm foundation from where to begin. My mom's dad was construction worker, turned contractor (on which he lost a lot of money in), and then became a building inspector... Respectable living he made.

My dad's side of the family are a little rougher. The drink a lot more, party a lot more, but are better family in that they spend time with you, and are always happy when you show up, and will never put you out. They are mostly in construction and teaching professions, nice blue collar jobs. Yet, one thing I notice is that they never try to better themselves, financially or careerwise. My dad's cousin has be in contruction for almost 30 years and never once thought of becoming a contractor... Why? They wwould rather spend time with their family than have money or work at their own buisness. When told they could spend even more time with their family once they made a lot of money, they usually say something along the lines of "yeah, but kids grow up so fast..."

I don't know what to take from this, but when my dad broke of off the blue collar family he was kind of shunned by them, and even to this day there is an air of resentment towards him for doing so... Yet, they say the love him all the same.

**Zero** · July 28, 2003, 19:08

All thre factors play a role. and as long as all 3 allow the possibility for you to be successful, you can be succesful thru advantage in genetics, enviornment or will... whatever.

**Ecthy** · July 28, 2003, 19:15

genetics, environment and will? I think will (the conscious per se, the mind so to speak) are formed by geens and by environment, so we're back at Mr Freud. how are those components of personality called in english?

**Ecthy** · July 28, 2003, 19:16

ego (mind, will), superego (environment) and "id" (genes)

instead of having this lousy debate, read soem hundred years old psychology!

**SlowwHand** · July 28, 2003, 19:17

There are a whole lot of losers in this thread, looking to put their failures on something besides themselves.

I have big news for you. Life is what you make it.
Actually, this thread is the same as Albert's.

**Cruddy** · July 28, 2003, 19:21

Originally posted by Ecthelion
ego (mind, will), superego (environment) and "id" (genes)

instead of having this lousy debate, read soem hundred years old psychology!

Or some more up to date psychology books that maybe have a couple of chaptes on Freud.

Or maybe not. Freud has this horrible habit of lumping the whole of human experience in the same pigeon hole.

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