Israel makes a huge mistake.

[Az]

how about a whole myriad of kids and 19 year old "kids" throwing stones and molotov bottles at soldiers, together with a bunch of 20+ year old "youths" with AK-47s?

we've seen British and American troops open fire and kill people on several occasions in Iraq, and they're not interested in some sort of revenge, but to liberate the people of iraq, supposedly.

Convicted murderers of palestinians are still sitting in Jail, btw.

[The Templar]

Originally posted by Azazel
how about a whole myriad of kids and 19 year old "kids" throwing stones and molotov bottles at soldiers, together with a bunch of 20+ year old "youths" with AK-47s?

I don't care about throwing stones. Anyone carrying a gun or a moltov around should be tossed in the clink. But the Israelis have a real double standard about how Palestinian lives stack up against Israeli lives.

we've seen British and American troops open fire and kill people on several occasions in Iraq, and they're not interested in some sort of revenge, but to liberate the people of iraq, supposedly.

And I think the soldiers involved in those should get a long vacation in a correctional facility. I assume we are talking about cases, like the protests and checkpoint incidents, where US or British soldiers opened fire on people that turned out to not to be terrorists.

Well, I can appreciate that they are afraid - BUT, we can't just let police officiers blow away motorists on traffic stops because the cop was feelign a little jumpy can we?

Convicted murderers of palestinians are still sitting in Jail, btw.

Where they should be.

[Az]

I don't care about throwing stones. Anyone carrying a gun or a moltov around should be tossed in the clink. But the Israelis have a real double standard about how Palestinian lives stack up against Israeli lives.

DUH!
I wonder who do the americans care about more, their dead, or someone else'? Same thing about every nation in the world.

And I think the soldiers involved in those should get a long vacation in a correctional facility. I assume we are talking about cases, like the protests and checkpoint incidents, where US or British soldiers opened fire on people that turned out to not to be terrorists.

Well, I can appreciate that they are afraid - BUT, we can't just let police officiers blow away motorists on traffic stops because the cop was feelign a little jumpy can we?

In Iraq, just like in the west bank, there are nearly always armed people in the protesting crowd.

[The Templar]

Originally posted by Azazel

I don't care about throwing stones. Anyone carrying a gun or a moltov around should be tossed in the clink. But the Israelis have a real double standard about how Palestinian lives stack up against Israeli lives.

DUH!

You raised the issue.

I wonder who do the americans care about more, their dead, or someone else'? Same thing about every nation in the world.

Everybody does it doesn't make it right. Moreover, once you occupy an area, you take responsibility for maintaining it. If you soldiers and cops start shooting indiscriminately, those soldiers or cops need punishment. If you don't like it, quit occupying it.

As for the US, our troops and leaders need to remember that liberating a people iclude giving them the right to peacibly assemble an petition for a redress of grievances. (Oddly, conservative hawks also want to round up arms in Iraq. What about the right to bear arms, guys? ****ing morons!)

[QUOTE In Iraq, just like in the west bank, there are nearly always armed people in the protesting crowd. [/QUOTE]

OK, so if anachists decide to use a peaceful anti-war demonstartion as a collection of human shields while they snipe at cops, NYC cops should be allowed to open fire indiscriminately on the crowd with machine guns? Wrong! Granted cops should get paid more, but it is their job to risk their own lives to protect the law abiding (including law abiding protesters).

[Az]

You can't compare policemen with soldiers.

[yavoon]

I would personally be ****ting myself if I was a soldier w/ an assault rifle standing a post anywhere in the middle east and wasn't arab. the entire ****ing place suicide bombs, protests, shoots. and on top of it a bunch of frickin liberals keep telling me I need some form of omniscience in order to protect myself.

[The Templar]

Originally posted by HershOstropoler
Neither the Palestinians nor the Israelis are sufficiently depending on foreign aid to force them to accept a deal they can't live with.

The Palestinians have nothing, so they are in no position to do jack (especially if you threaten to let Israel handle the situation as Israel sees fit).

Israel depends on American weapons, yank their aid and their ability to purchase foriegn weapons systems. That combination should prove frightening enough to get them to do as they are told.

Yeah, the middle east pisses me off. It is, quite possibly, the best argument in favor of British colonialism. What the hell is the problem with the residents of that region? Or is it something in the water? At any rate, the whole region has proven incapable of controlling itself in my book.

(on a side note: why the hell isn't there a Palestinian Ghandi or MLK Jr.? You no, a leader who actually cares about what happens to the common Palestinian instead of strapping explosives on to the common Palestinian?)

[The Templar]

Originally posted by Azazel
You can't compare policemen with soldiers.

Then put policepeople in to manage an occupation instead of soldiers.

[HershOstropoler]

"The Palestinians have nothing, so they are in no position to do jack"

"What the hell is the problem with the residents of that region? Or is it something in the water?"

That should tell you that cutting off aid won't do miracles where Israeli occupation, mass arrests and extrajudicial killings have failed.

[The Templar]

Originally posted by yavoon
I would personally be ****ting myself if I was a soldier w/ an assault rifle standing a post anywhere in the middle east and wasn't arab. the entire ****ing place suicide bombs, protests, shoots. and on top of it a bunch of frickin liberals keep telling me I need some form of omniscience in order to protect myself.

You don't need omniscience, just immanent danger. Police go into risky situations all the time, but guess what? They can't go in guns blazing. So neither should occupying troops. Non-combatant civilians have rights. This includes the right not to get shot by a jumpy soldier.

Don't like it, don't sign up.

[The Templar]

Originally posted by HershOstropoler
"The Palestinians have nothing, so they are in no position to do jack"

"What the hell is the problem with the residents of that region? Or is it something in the water?"

That should tell you that cutting off aid won't do miracles where Israeli occupation, mass arrests and extrajudicial killings have failed.

Point taken

[yavoon]

Originally posted by The Templar


You don't need omniscience, just immanent danger. Police go into risky situations all the time, but guess what? They can't go in guns blazing. So neither should occupying troops. Non-combatant civilians have rights. This includes the right not to get shot by a jumpy soldier.

Don't like it, don't sign up.

police in western countries simply aren't dealing with the situations u have in the middle east. the goal of a terrorist is to get his neighbor killed so his other neighbors become infuriated. u don't get this w/ "polce." so its not a compatible situation. u can't ask the israeli guards to simple martyr themselves on principle. as the tactics worsen the tension worsens.

[Az]

extrajudicial killings

wha?

[HershOstropoler]

How would you describe firing rockets into residential areas to kill suspected terrorist leaders?

[muxec]

No freedom to murderers!