What are the arguments for and against US forces in Korea?

[Drake Tungsten]

NO, China does NOT have a good Blue water navy of any sort.

No one said they did. They are trying to acquire one, however, which is part of the long term strategic plan you refuse to believe in.

Jesus. You asked for attempts to get overseas basing rights. I give you evidence for it. Then you ask "what subs?". I give you evidence for their subs. I even listed a book you can go read to get educated on the subject. What the hell do I have to do to convince that China has a strategic plan, like most other countries? It's a pretty obvious fact. Why can't you accept it??

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

As for "bases" that will be able to house Chinese subs: fine, which subs?

How about these 66 subs?

Why don't you just give up, GePap? You're obviously out of your element in this discussion.

So actually why do the Chinese need bases in the Indian Ocean for their nuclear subs? I might be wrong, but I thought nuke subs had the ability to operate anywhere in the world.

[Drake Tungsten]

So tell us Drake, what is this grand strategic plan?

What, you guys expect me to write a ****ing dissertation for you? This isn't exactly a concept you can lay out briefly. Go read a book for god's sake.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

So tell us Drake, what is this grand strategic plan?

What, you guys expect me to write a ****ing dissertation for you? This isn't exactly a concept you can lay out briefly. Go read a book for god's sake.

Well, you're such an expert about China's secret grand strategic plan that you must be able to provide us with the highlights.

Does the plan call for turning Japan into a client state? Or maybe China wants a military alliance with the Philippines? Or does the grand stategic plan involve taking over Australia? Or maybe Canada?

[Drake Tungsten]

Well, you're such an expert about China's secret grand strategic plan that you must be able to provide us with the highlights.

It's hardly a secret plan. Just because you and GePap are ignorant on the subject doesn't mean that the rest of the world is in the dark on it.

[GePap]

Drake, neither article says that china has asked either Myanmar nor Pak for the right to station subs: they simply say the modification being made would make it possible. So you hacven't even shown proof, but Indian specualtions.

you were the first one to shoot your mouth of about me being out of my element, when you did not even take the time to examine that well over half of all thsoe 66 sus are either Romeos or updated Romeos; though hjow much you can update a 50 year desing is questionalbe. The best subs the Chinese have right now are the Kilo's (cause I am dubious about the capabilities of the locally made nuke subs), and the Indians have bought, or plan to buy just as many.

Interestingly enough, India seems much more aggresive in the naval spehre, having a small carrier now and waiting to buy a Russian one, they have and are getting more Kilos, and the got Tu-22 Backfire long range naval bombers, which would give them a greater range naval aircraft than the Chinese. Do the Indians have some immense geo-strategic plan?

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

How about these 66 subs?

And 38 of those subs are Romeo types "built using Soviet designs that were based on the German Type-21 U- boat of 1944. The actual number of operable Romeo-class units is difficult to assess, since none of these submarines spends more than a few days at sea each year, and because of the general shortage of trained crews.

16 are Ming type subs, an upgraded Romeo that is still obsolete. (A perfect definition of Ming )

The long term plan is to have more Mings. That's a really great strategic plan, build more obsolete subs.

[Drake Tungsten]

Do the Indians have some immense geo-strategic plan?

Of course they have a strategic plan, just like China.

BTW, you should be a little more subtle in setting up your strawmen. It's pretty obvious that I never claimed that China has an "immense" geo-strategic plan or that they are out to "conquer the world". Same thing goes for you, Tingkai. Bringing up absurd scenarios like China making Japan a client state or invading Canada reflects badly upon you, not me.

[Q Classic]

though I guess to be fair u've always shown animosity towards me no matter how inane my position is.

animosity towards your position on korea, since i don't think it's well informed. there is no personal animosity, not to you. doesn't help that you call all of my posts "flames".
i was actually more offended that you thought i was suggesting that we continue to be blackmailed.

Well, you're such an expert about China's secret grand strategic plan that you must be able to provide us with the highlights.

not an expert, but ==>

as for whether china has a plan or not: all the east asian countries have a plan. whether they come to fruition or not is a different matter, but... china's undeclared master plan is to bring back the epicenter of the world, politically, economically, and culturally, to china so that eastern learning can radiate outwards from the forbidden city.

[Drake Tungsten]

not an expert, but ==>

I saw your post, Q Cubed.

You're definitely right that China wants to reascend to its historical position as the hegemon in East Asia. Now, if only you could convince these two idiots of this obvious fact, I'd be most appreciative.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

Do the Indians have some immense geo-strategic plan?

Of course they have a strategic plan, just like China.

BTW, you should be a little more subtle in setting up your strawmen. It's pretty obvious that I never claimed that China has an "immense" geo-strategic plan or that they are out to "conquer the world". Same thing goes for you, Tingkai. Bringing up absurd scenarios like China making Japan a client state or invading Canada reflects badly upon you, not me.

Drake, you are arguing that China has a grand stategic plan, yet you refuse to say what that plan is. The logical conclusion is that you don't know what you're talking about. If you back up your claims with specific details about this grand strategic plan then great, otherwise you're just blowing hot air. I mean what's the point of you saying China has a grand strategic plan, but then saying you're not going to mention any details.

[Drake Tungsten]

Anyway, I wish I could find these articles in full on the web, but Foreign Affairs is pretty effective in keeping these under control. This was the best I could do.

The Coming Conflict With America

And the one I agree with more:

Beijing As A Conservative Power

[Q Classic]

and not give an answer. =[

my solution? engage them. tell them we're through with that ****, and if they want any more aid then they better damn well do it on our terms, or we'll let them starve. let them no we won't pull any punches: if they hit us with a nuke, we annihialate them--if they decide to test one of their nukes, test one of ours--in the pacific, near the northern side of the peninsula. they will see who they're messing with.
once they agree to disarm, twist the knife. force them to open up, force them to create more special economic zones. push them towards a temporary commonwealth with skorea, in which borders are open and thus trade and internal development will be spurred by primarily korean sources.
once nkorea is no longer in the stone age, eliminate the dear leader and his cronies from power. stalinism has no place on that peninsula.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

not an expert, but ==>

I saw your post, Q Cubed.

You're definitely right that China wants to reascend to its historical position as the hegemon in East Asia.

Oh, so now you're saying that China's plan is to make Japan its client state. Didn't you say something about how that is an absurb scenario?

[yavoon]

Originally posted by Q Cubed

though I guess to be fair u've always shown animosity towards me no matter how inane my position is.

animosity towards your position on korea, since i don't think it's well informed. there is no personal animosity, not to you. doesn't help that you call all of my posts "flames".
i was actually more offended that you thought i was suggesting that we continue to be blackmailed.

Well, you're such an expert about China's secret grand strategic plan that you must be able to provide us with the highlights.

not an expert, but ==>

as for whether china has a plan or not: all the east asian countries have a plan. whether they come to fruition or not is a different matter, but... china's undeclared master plan is to bring back the epicenter of the world, politically, economically, and culturally, to china so that eastern learning can radiate outwards from the forbidden city.

I actually didn't make any suggestions. if u thot I did sorry. I didn't. u r dodging well. c'mon I wanna see a suggestion. it'll be fun. what should be done?