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What are the arguments for and against US forces in Korea?

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  • What are the arguments for and against US forces in Korea?

    At first, I was hesitant to feel comfortable about moving most of our troops out of Korea, but now I feel like we should leave post-haste. We argue a lot about whether or not to keep 150k troops in Iraq, but we haven't had a good discussion about our 37,000 permanent station in SK for many, many years.

    There are some reasons for removing our troops from Korea:

    1) SK should provide the meat for their grinder, not the US;
    2) SK should bear more financial burden for its own defense, thus giving them a fuller appreciation of the trade-offs with regard to the collapse of the NK regime;
    3) The US can provide a security umbrella without substantial numbers of troops;
    4) A substantial portion of the population doesn't want us there, and our continued presence inflames nationalist passions against the US;
    5) Our troops aren't treated well (racism, hypernationalism, etc.);
    6) There would be symmetry with how China deals with its client (no Chinese troops in NK); and
    7) Our interests with regard to China are adequately met with our bases in Japan.

    Against this are at least the following points:

    1) It looks like we are abandoning the relationship with SK;
    2) We would no longer have troops on land near the border with a potential long-term strategic competitor, China;
    3) We would have less of a say over how SK is defended;
    4) Perhaps a majority of SKs still want us there; and
    5) It is cheaper for the US to provide defense for SK than it is for SK to provide it.

    Then there is the question of whether we should stay, but move our forces elsewhere--such as away from Seoul and the DMZ. This looks to be what we are doing, in part. I can't tell whether this is just cover for an actual pullout, however.

    If you have anything to add or a point to expand upon or contradict, please do so and I will edit in any salient points.

    Background info: The US will spend 3.5% of its economy on defense while SK spends about 2.7% of its economy on defense. SK's economy is about 25x the size of NK's and has at least twice the population.
    Last edited by DanS; July 26, 2003, 22:36.
    I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

  • #2
    SK wants to pusyfoot around the NK problem, and I believed that's why we haven't attacked already...though I admit I haven't kept up w/ the latest. Once NK is up to its butt in nukes it will be too late, and we'll have them on our plate forever. Basicly a welfare state w/ a welfare government, and we have to provide for them. Clinton put it off by paying them off, but Bush is made of sterner stuff. I just hope SK does what it needs to do before too late, that is, support a full scale conventional attack.

    Btw, we really need 5-10 new, additional divisions...
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    • #3
      5-10 new divisions? JHC!
      I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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      • #4
        At first, I was hesitant to feel comfortable about moving most of our troops out of Korea, but now I feel like we should leave post-haste.


        I'm happy to see you've come around on the issue.

        Btw, we really need 5-10 new, additional divisions...


        5 new divisions would be nice. 10 may be a little excessive.
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        • #5
          Where would the manpower come from?
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          • #6
            Personally I think pulling them out would be an invitation to NK to invade.

            Additionally, I think "flexible response" might be one way of dealing with the NK situation. Highly risky though.

            (For those not in the know, "Flexible response" means "Blink ugly at us and we'll nuke the crap out of you.")

            What I would like to see is more multinational troops stationed there - maybe not a deterrance to immediate invasion, but a definate warning that if NK does invade, it can't expect to stay long.

            China will have the ultimate say on NK's fate - at least, that's my understanding of it.
            Some cry `Allah O Akbar` in the street. And some carry Allah in their heart.
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            • #7
              The NK military isn't capable of conquering the South. Invading would be suicide.
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              • #8
                "Where would the manpower come from?"

                The citizenry...? (duh)

                A small power like NK with nukes and missiles could be as great a danger as the Sovs were. They don't have to be able to destroy the world 10 times over, just the US, once. How do they get such an ability? Just like they're doing, one nuke at a time and developing their missile system.

                We can't depend on our oceans to protect us anymore, we have to go after them. (the rectumites of the world that is...) That requires force and the abilty to project it. With much of our army tied down, we need to raise new forces.
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by David Floyd
                  The NK military isn't capable of conquering the South. Invading would be suicide.
                  Conquering the RoK isn't the worry. Crippling it is.
                  (For those not in the know, "Flexible response" means "Blink ugly at us and we'll nuke the crap out of you.")
                  You're confusing it with massive retaliation.
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                  • #10
                    The citizenry...? (duh)
                    Obviously, but 5 new divisions would be what? Something like two or three hundred thousand more troops (including support personnel)? Where will you find that many volunteers? Without getting into the debate, we can ALL agree that the draft is not politically viable, right?
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                    • #11
                      US forces in Korea at this time are little more than early warning cannon fodder.

                      The farthest they would go is Okinawa: defending SK is part of defending Japan, and both SK and Japan are too important to world (and our) economic well being.
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by David Floyd
                        Obviously, but 5 new divisions would be what?
                        IIRC, the current debate is centering around hether or not to expand it by 1-2 divisions not 5.
                        I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                        For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by David Floyd


                          Obviously, but 5 new divisions would be what? Something like two or three hundred thousand more troops (including support personnel)? Where will you find that many volunteers? Without getting into the debate, we can ALL agree that the draft is not politically viable, right?
                          But it would be so easy. We've already shown that people like you will go along with it. That's why we wanted you to register, so we could draft you.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DinoDoc

                            (For those not in the know, "Flexible response" means "Blink ugly at us and we'll nuke the crap out of you.")
                            You're confusing it with massive retaliation.
                            Erm... no. Flexible response does not demand that NK actually launch a nuke of their own. Retaliation implies that NK had already nuked.

                            Get the difference?
                            Some cry `Allah O Akbar` in the street. And some carry Allah in their heart.
                            "The CIA does nothing, says nothing, allows nothing, unless its own interests are served. They are the biggest assembly of liars and theives this country ever put under one roof and they are an abomination" Deputy COS (Intel) US Army 1981-84

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                            • #15
                              The economy is dumping, filling out those divisions should be easy...advertise, reduce unemployment benefits to normal levels...
                              Long time member @ Apolyton
                              Civilization player since the dawn of time

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