Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Conservative answers Iraq criticism

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Conservative answers Iraq criticism

    In an excellent article, Victor David Hanson from the National review answers the Iraq criticism.



    Here are the most interesting portions.

    1.Tens of thousands of troops deployed in Iraq represent an unacceptable escalating and open-ended commitment of American blood and treasure.

    "It was never so simple as staying or leaving — inasmuch as we already had been in Iraq for over a decade in a manner that had saved thousands of Kurds and Shiites. Against the present cost of pacifying Iraq must be set a half-generation and the $20-30 billion already spent to secure two-thirds of the airspace of Iraq. Then there was the costly naval enforcement of the U.N. embargo from the Gulf to the Indian Ocean — as well as years of prior shootings and bombings along the way.

    Add another decade's outlay of keeping 10,000 troops in Saudi Arabia — with all the political risks of putting Americans in such a strange place. Consider further the thousands of Americans stationed elsewhere in the Gulf since 1991 to thwart Saddam Hussein. This three-week conflict, in other words, marked the start of the denouement — not the first act — of a long, costly engagement that began in 1991.

    If, with the demise of Saddam Hussein — who was the original reason for our aid to his weak and vulnerable neighbors — we can withdraw or at least downsize from places like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Turkey, and the Gulf sheikdoms, then a great deal of the present investment will represent a transfer of expenses rather than an entirely new commitment. Unless we are activating entirely new National Guard units or creating ex nihilo divisions, some percentage of our costs for troops is static and previously budgeted anyway — whether American soldiers are to be fed and housed in Texas or in Baghdad.

    The present task has a definable goal — leave with consensual government established in Iraq — whereas the last twelve years really were open-ended and led nowhere."

    2. Iraq was a complete distraction from the war against terror.

    "[...]Consider the following collateral developments in little over 100 days. There is some movement in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Soon an American military presence in Saudi Arabia will end. We already see a cessation of cash rewards for suicide murderers; the death or arrests of terrorists like Abu Nidal, Abu Abbas, and al Qaedists in Kurdistan; probable disruption of Iraqi cash flows to terrorist groups based in Lebanon; Hamas worried in Syria; democratic foment in Iran; and a growing sense that the United States is not something terrorists wish to arouse.[...]"

    3. The lack of tangible evidence of weapons of mass destruction undermines the success of the war — and gives powerful ammunition to the Democrats' criticism of Mr. Bush.

    "This would be true if there had not been ample reasons presented for going to war — from Saddam's violation of the 1991 accords, his expulsion of U.N. inspectors, his past history of invading and attacking his neighbors, his connection with terrorists, and prior confirmation by the U.N. and the Clinton administration of a continued Iraq WMD program.
    [...] If President Clinton once authorized a four-day war because of Saddam's non-compliance with past promises, and no subsequent evidence was adduced that those stockpiles of WMD were in fact recovered or destroyed, then were the Clinton administration and the U.N. wrong, or disingenuous, in their belief that such weapons ever really existed?

    And — putting all put aside WMD, curbing terrorism, and concerns over our own security — is saving thousands of Iraqis any less humanitarian than intervening in Liberia?"

    4. We have done lasting damage to international alliances and institutions.

    "Careful scrutiny reveals just the opposite: the U.N., NATO, the EU, South Korea, and other bodies and nations are reexamining their own, not our, behavior.

    The U.N. is not debating leaving the United States or expelling us from the Security Council, but in fact is reviewing its entire constitution: from the exclusion of powerful nations like Japan, Germany, and India from the Security Council to the nature of odious regimes that participate on important commissions — such as that paragon of human rights, Libya.

    [...]In short, a new honesty and maturity are the real dividends of American actions."

    5. In a drive for global hegemony, America is crafting a new imperialism to rule the world.

    "The trendy notion of America as a "hyperpower" is largely an artifact of the aftermath of the Cold War. True, we enjoy unmatched military strength. Sure, we spend more on defense than do the next ten or so nations collectively. But that imbalance is not a reflection of a wish to dominate the globe, but mostly due to the abject collapse of an empire that failed to do precisely that — and the cleanup of the resulting detritus of Soviet interventions and clients, from Serbia to Afghanistan to Iraq.

    In terms of percentages of GNP, we are spending no more on our military budget than we did through most years of the Cold War. Both at home and abroad, the real story is just as often the abandonment, not the construction, of military bases.[...]"
    'There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way. The war we fight is not against powers and principalities, it is against chaos and despair. Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender. The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.'"
    G'Kar - from Babylon 5 episode "Z'ha'dum"

  • #2
    USA
    www.my-piano.blogspot

    Comment


    • #3
      So what seems to be said is...

      1.Tens of thousands of troops deployed in Iraq represent an unacceptable escalating and open-ended commitment of American blood and treasure.
      Its ok. We're saving money!


      2. Iraq was a complete distraction from the war against terror.
      "democratic foment in Iran" - NOTHING to do with the Iraq conflict

      "There is some movement in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict" - NOTHING to do with the Iraq conflict

      "the death or arrests of terrorists like Abu Nidal, Abu Abbas, and al Qaedists in Kurdistan" - NOTHING to do with the Iraq conflict (note Kurdistan was not under Saddam's control)

      3. The lack of tangible evidence of weapons of mass destruction undermines the success of the war — and gives powerful ammunition to the Democrats' criticism of Mr. Bush
      The American people wont mind (yeah right) and Clinton and the UN did it first (Since when do the conservatives follow Clinton and the UNs lead)

      4. We have done lasting damage to international alliances and institutions.
      They're reexamining their own procedures (as if they can do anything else. They are reexamining themselves to see how best they can attempt to restrain an out of control american juggernaut)

      5. In a drive for global hegemony, America is crafting a new imperialism to rule the world.
      We're not spending that much! We're spending the same as when we had to defend the world. (no explanation given for why spending hasnt decreased now the threat from the Soviet Union no longer exists)

      Comment


      • #4
        They're reexamining their own procedures (as if they can do anything else. They are reexamining themselves to see how best they can attempt to restrain an out of control american juggernaut)


        www.my-piano.blogspot

        Comment


        • #5
          Satire?
          www.my-piano.blogspot

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Zulu Elephant
            So what seems to be said is...

            Its ok. We're saving money!
            That was not his point. His point was that it is not an "unacceptable escalating and open-ended commitment of American blood and treasure." because our stay in Iraq is temporary whereas the previous containment policy was an open-ended commitment with no results to show for it.

            "democratic foment in Iran" - NOTHING to do with the Iraq conflict
            Prove it! Is it not reasonable to assume that the liberation of the Iraqi people from a tyrant, may have inspired those Iranian who also wish freedom from their tyrant?

            "There is some movement in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict" - NOTHING to do with the Iraq conflict
            Again, prove it! It is well known that Saddam was paying the families of the suicide bombers.

            "the death or arrests of terrorists like Abu Nidal, Abu Abbas, and al Qaedists in Kurdistan" - NOTHING to do with the Iraq conflict (note Kurdistan was not under Saddam's control)
            Again prove it! Al Queda had connections with Saddam. Is it not possible that the war allowed us to gain info that led to their capture?

            The American people wont mind (yeah right) and Clinton and the UN did it first (Since when do the conservatives follow Clinton and the UNs lead)
            The point is that Clinton's actions and the UN's actions, prove that the war was justified. If Clinton was telling the truth, and Saddam was the threat he claimed he was, then Bush was justified in toppling the Saddam regime by force.

            We're not spending that much! We're spending the same as when we had to defend the world. (no explanation given for why spending hasnt decreased now the threat from the Soviet Union no longer exists)
            We have to defend the world, cause if we don't, nobody else would or could!
            'There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way. The war we fight is not against powers and principalities, it is against chaos and despair. Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender. The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.'"
            G'Kar - from Babylon 5 episode "Z'ha'dum"

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Conservative answers Iraq criticism

              Originally posted by The diplomat
              "The trendy notion of America as a "hyperpower" is largely an artifact of the aftermath of the Cold War. True, we enjoy unmatched military strength. Sure, we spend more on defense than do the next ten or so nations collectively. But that imbalance is not a reflection of a wish to dominate the globe, but mostly due to the abject collapse of an empire that failed to do precisely that — and the cleanup of the resulting detritus of Soviet interventions and clients, from Serbia to Afghanistan to Iraq.

              In terms of percentages of GNP, we are spending no more on our military budget than we did through most years of the Cold War. Both at home and abroad, the real story is just as often the abandonment, not the construction, of military bases.[...]"
              This is bit I consider complete bull****.

              If the Cold War is over, why is the US spending the same amount?

              Could it be - to keep the defence corporations the rich fat bastards that they are?
              Some cry `Allah O Akbar` in the street. And some carry Allah in their heart.
              "The CIA does nothing, says nothing, allows nothing, unless its own interests are served. They are the biggest assembly of liars and theives this country ever put under one roof and they are an abomination" Deputy COS (Intel) US Army 1981-84

              Comment


              • #8
                Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Zulu Elephant
                  "democratic foment in Iran" - NOTHING to do with the Iraq conflict
                  Before the war, there was an Iranian woman quoated as saying, "get on with Iraq, we want to be next." It is very reasonable to think that pro-democracy forces next door are encouraged to see a tyrant gone. And to see some implicit threat on their mullahs which may make them change policy.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    If, with the demise of Saddam Hussein — who was the original reason for our aid to his weak and vulnerable neighbors — we can withdraw or at least downsize from places like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Turkey, and the Gulf sheikdoms,
                    One of Iraq's neighbours was weak and vulnerable (Kuwait), the rest were not. Iran, Turkey and Saudi Arabia could have easily defeated Iraq.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      too little too late...
                      To us, it is the BEAST.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Re: Conservative answers Iraq criticism

                        Originally posted by Cruddy
                        If the Cold War is over, why is the US spending the same amount?
                        Because the world is just as dangerous as it was during the Cold War. There is a very real threat of rogue states acquiring weapons of mass destruction.

                        And because, as I said, the US is the only country able and willing to defend the world.
                        'There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way. The war we fight is not against powers and principalities, it is against chaos and despair. Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender. The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.'"
                        G'Kar - from Babylon 5 episode "Z'ha'dum"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Re: Re: Conservative answers Iraq criticism

                          Originally posted by The diplomat


                          Because the world is just as dangerous as it was during the Cold War. There is a very real threat of rogue states acquiring weapons of mass destruction.
                          [/SIZE]
                          So why doesn't the US spend the money on buying all the WMDs so there aren't any for sale? A lot cheaper - but of course, US industrialists would lose out. Can't have those shareholders reduced to their last sports car, can we?

                          Originally posted by The diplomat

                          And because, as I said, the US is the only country able and willing to defend the world.
                          Defend it from who? Your bombast is meaningless.

                          If we all defend our own bits, doesn't that make the US defence budgets pointless, except for keeeping the aforementioned fat bastards fat?
                          Some cry `Allah O Akbar` in the street. And some carry Allah in their heart.
                          "The CIA does nothing, says nothing, allows nothing, unless its own interests are served. They are the biggest assembly of liars and theives this country ever put under one roof and they are an abomination" Deputy COS (Intel) US Army 1981-84

                          Comment


                          • #14


                            "This would be true if there had not been ample reasons presented for going to war — from Saddam's violation of the 1991 accords, his expulsion of U.N. inspectors, his past history of invading and attacking his neighbors, his connection with terrorists, and prior confirmation by the U.N. and the Clinton administration of a continued Iraq WMD program.
                            If I remember correctly, and it was only about six months ago so I should, the only reason for going to war was being shoved down our throats--he was a madman with WoMD. No other reasons were touted near so much as the holy WoMD, for by it thou might convince Americans that war is a good thing; ....

                            [...] If President Clinton once authorized a four-day war because of Saddam's non-compliance with past promises, and no subsequent evidence was adduced that those stockpiles of WMD were in fact recovered or destroyed, then were the Clinton administration and the U.N. wrong, or disingenuous, in their belief that such weapons ever really existed?
                            Remember? The ultimatum was that Saddam destroy whatever weapons of mass destruction he had; apparently HE DID! Give it up with the trolls already.
                            We have to defend the world, cause if we don't, nobody else would or could!
                            The idea of America as a hyperpower to guide the world is possibly the most threatening thing humanity has ever faced. NEVER should so much power be concentrated in one entity. It's simple common sense.

                            As for your actual 'defend the world' argument, i'm terribly sorry, but no one ever elected America as the world's policeman. The only body elected to do that is the United Nations; which, however inefficient it may be, is better than some nightmare juggernaut crashing dictatorships and whatnot at its every whim and fancy.
                            meet the new boss, same as the old boss

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by mrmitchell
                              Remember? The ultimatum was that Saddam destroy whatever weapons of mass destruction he had; apparently HE DID! Give it up with the trolls already.
                              Then he could have easily proved that.
                              I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                              For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X