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**GePap** · July 25, 2003, 17:44

They can;t afford 50 year old cars, and donkey don;t float well.

**Dinner** · July 25, 2003, 17:45

We claim to be the land of the free, the land of opportunity and all that jazz; so why all the anger towards illegal immigrants?

Maybe because they are ****ing criminals and Americans don't like criminals who ignore our laws and just continue to do what ever the hell they feel like do. Maybe we think that such criminals are not worthy of becoming citizens and that we would rather see deserving law abiding people become citizens. Naw, that couldn't be it. Please continue your baseless leftist rant.

**chequita guevara** · July 25, 2003, 18:12

Originally posted by Elden

BS, Cuba is a communist country anyone with any religious beliefs will be persecuted, guaranteed no proof necessary.

Except for the fact that people with religious beliefs aren't persecuted there. While it's true that the Catholic Church was persecuted, it is no longer the case. Nor was it persecuted very heavily, but mostly because of it's association with the former murderous dictatorship and it's opposition to the current government. Since the Pope and Castro came to an agreement, the Church is no longer "persecuted."

No, the truth is the vast majority of people who leave Cuba do so for economic reasons. Why else would they brave the dangerous Florida Straights to come to the US when it is easier and safer to strike out for the Bahamas and Haiti, both of which are much closer and don't have the dangerous currents that you see in the Florida Straights.

**chequita guevara** · July 25, 2003, 18:19

If I was Castro, and I wanted to f*ck with the US immigration policy, I'd open the doors to people in Latin America, give them citizenship in Cuba, then "allow" them to escape to the US. Soon the US would have a horde of Latin Americans pouring in that it had to make citizens.

**Mordoch** · July 25, 2003, 18:38

Originally posted by Japher
extra points if the car still ran

It was running just fine and the engine was attached to a propeller which provided the propulsion for the "ship." According to the Cubans on the truck, if they got to land they would have been able to drive it onto a beach and after taking off the pontoons, drive it on a road!

**MichaeltheGreat** · July 25, 2003, 18:59

Originally posted by Cruddy

Neither of them spotted it first - as for the speed, I find it hard to believe a home built amphib could make 8mph, let alone 8 knots, without a strong tail current or other simutus.

C'mon, where's your sense of humour?

Depending on time of year and weather, currents in the Florida Strait can run in excess of four knots, and three plus isn't uncommon.

**:) Smiley** · July 25, 2003, 19:02

The US depends so heavily on Latin American labor in agriculture, construction, and services, don't we want more of these people?

The argument that cheap immigrant labor takes away jobs from existing Americans is flawed, as those jobs are already gone and taken by illegal immigrants. Legalizing those illegals would actually make them less competitive as companies wouldn't be able to hire them for fifty cents an hour.

**DRoseDARs** · July 25, 2003, 19:56

GeGap et al, let's just agree to STRONGLY disagree.

And passing me off as a" leftist" was just rude.

You know squat about my political leanings and opinions, so painting a label on me doesn't do much to swing my opinion in favor of your views...

**chequita guevara** · July 25, 2003, 20:22

Originally posted by

Smiley
The US depends so heavily on Latin American labor in agriculture, construction, and services, don't we want more of these people?

Cubans, typically, are far more educated than other Hispanics (in fact, Cuba's literacy rate exceeds that of the US), and have real job training. Most migrant labor in Florida is still performed by Mexicans and Central Americans. Cubans, as not merely legal immigrants, but citizens of the US, tend to get better jobs. On the other hand, la Calle Ocho is not a place an Anglo should be walking around at night, so they can't be all that successful.

The argument against the special treatment of Cubans isn't that they are Cubans or illegal immigrants, but rather that the get special treatment. On top of that, this special treatment leads to many unncessary deaths, as not everyone gets rescued when their leaky boats go down. Remember the whole mess around Elian, an only survivor. It happens a lot more than you know about. If we sent them back no matter waht, it would discourage a lot of others from trying to make the trip.

**yavoon** · July 25, 2003, 20:24

Originally posted by chegitz guevara

Cubans, typically, are far more educated than other Hispanics (in fact, Cuba's literacy rate exceeds that of the US), and have real job training. Most migrant labor in Florida is still performed by Mexicans and Central Americans. Cubans, as not merely legal immigrants, but citizens of the US, tend to get better jobs. On the other hand, la Calle Ocho is not a place an Anglo should be walking around at night, so they can't be all that successful.

The argument against the special treatment of Cubans isn't that they are Cubans or illegal immigrants, but rather that the get special treatment. On top of that, this special treatment leads to many unncessary deaths, as not everyone gets rescued when their leaky boats go down. Remember the whole mess around Elian, an only survivor. It happens a lot more than you know about. If we sent them back no matter waht, it would discourage a lot of others from trying to make the trip.

coming to america was dangerous for lots of people. if they think its worth it, let em paddle that chevy! I'd run the hell away from castro too.

**chequita guevara** · July 25, 2003, 20:33

Originally posted by yavoon

coming to america was dangerous for lots of people. if they think its worth it, let em paddle that chevy! I'd run the hell away from castro too.

Of course they think it's worth it. Instant citizenship, money, and help getting a job.

If the only reason you were trying to get away was to get away from Castro, wouldn't you take the closer, easier and safer trip to the Bahamas or to Haiti. I have a map fo the Caribbean on my wall above my computer. It's more than twice as far to Florida as it is to Haiti, and you don't have a current sucking you out into the Atlantic either. Grand Inagua Island in the Bahamas is about the same distance as Haiti. But of course, Haiti is an economic basket case and the Bahamas won't make you a citizen and help you get a job.

It's all about the jobs. It's the same reason why Mexicans kill themselves crossing the Sonora desert in Arizona, and Chinese pack themselves into containers to become slave laborers in the US. It's all about the Benjamins.

**yavoon** · July 25, 2003, 20:35

Originally posted by chegitz guevara

Of course they think it's worth it. Instant citizenship, money, and help getting a job.

If the only reason you were trying to get away was to get away from Castro, wouldn't you take the closer, easier and safer trip to the Bahamas or to Haiti. I have a map fo the Caribbean on my wall above my computer. It's more than twice as far to Florida as it is to Haiti, and you don't have a current sucking you out into the Atlantic either. Grand Inagua Island in the Bahamas is about the same distance as Haiti. But of course, Haiti is an economic basket case and the Bahamas won't make you a citizen and help you get a job.

It's all about the jobs. It's the same reason why Mexicans kill themselves crossing the Sonora desert in Arizona, and Chinese pack themselves into containers to become slave laborers in the US. It's all about the Benjamins.

I think it could be safely said that its the relative pull of the US vs cuba. I wouldn't flee cuba into iraq. or flee cuba into pakistan. but when the United States sits outside ur front door and if u set foot on it u can go get a job an education and a future for ur children. or u can stay in cuba.

"honey get the paddle"

**chequita guevara** · July 25, 2003, 20:37

Have you ever considered the benefits of cutting quotes? You don't need to quote everything I wrote immediately after I wrote it, just to make a few comments.

**chequita guevara** · July 25, 2003, 20:43

Originally posted by yavoon
I think it could be safely said that its the relative pull of the US vs cuba.

The point is, if you are trying to escape oppression you will go anywhere. It's kinda like the Russian Jews who refused to leave the USSR for Israel, but would leave if they were allowed to go to the US. If you are being persecuted, you should just want out. If it's not bad enough that you'll go anywhere to escape, it's really not that bad.

Since you agreed it's about jobs, however, why even bring Castro into the argument? It's not like any of the Greater Antilles has anything to offer their citizens except jobs in the fields or the tourist industry . . . except for Cuba, that is. Well, you could agree to be a medical guinea pig in Puerto Rico or sew baseballs for a dollar a day in the Dominican Republic (which still has (illegal) slavery, btw. Course, Haiti doesn't even have those options.

**:) Smiley** · July 26, 2003, 08:23

Does Puerto Rico count as US soil, and do Cubans ever strike out for there?

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Grrr...why weren't these people immediately made US Citizens?

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