Is humanity (collectively) going to hell?

[GePap]

Originally posted by Sava
Is there a time he wouldn't be evil?

In what other time would he have been able to create industrilized killing camps?As for a conqueror killing lots and lots of the people he conquered, that was standard operating procedure through most of human history.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Agathon


Bull. If you're poor it is effectively decided for you. I can't believe that you would say something so blatantly false.

I've been poor. As in, carrying everything I owned in a backpack poor.

Back to the general subject of humanity going to hell, for the most part, in most areas of the world, things sucked far worse in the past than they do now.

[Agathon]

This is the last I'm going to say on the topic.

I don't consider what I wrote to be a threadjack. The question was, "is the world going to hell?" Presumably people expect more than just "yes" or "no". I think most of the world's problems are political problems. I don't believe in "original sin" or that people are fundamentally good or evil: in fact I don't think that question can be seriously asked.

I've said why I think things are bad, and my answer is the peculiar political and economic system I call "capitalism". If you want to know why people are starving in a world of material plenty, my answer is capitalism. If people want to disagree they can argue that it's not capitalism's fault - attacking communism is changing the subject.

That is not a threadjack. What's a threadjack is turning the thread into a communism versus capitalism debate. If anyone is to be banned for doing that it should be the people who started the threadjack. They are Fez and Michael the Great. If anyone should be banned or warned, it's them.

[Japher]

Nice. Yet, I see no reasoning for one to say; "If you want to know why people are starving in a world of material plenty, my answer is capitalism. "

That makes no sense.

People have starved in any/other political and economic systems. I see no basis for this crude assumption.

Also, a 'world of plenty' was created partly due to capitalism, if not wholy...

[Sava]

I don't consider what I wrote to be a threadjack

I do.

attacking communism is changing the subject.

so is attacking capitalism... which you did

That is not a threadjack.

yes it is... get out... you are on my **** list as well. At least Fez had the decency to stop the threadjack...

Fez > Agathon

[Velociryx]

Well, I tried, Sava....made a new thread where the debate could rage on, but....I just got back from lunch, and apparently it got eaten....

-=Vel=-

[Japher]

The world is surly on its way to hell, soon there will be no cavandishs and we will all morn of it's passing... Hell will b one step closer...

Give me my Banana!!!

[Sava]

Well, I tried, Sava....made a new thread where the debate could rage on, but....I just got back from lunch, and apparently it got eaten....

-=Vel=-

oh well, thanks for trying... apparantly the dumb want to prance in my thread and not their own

[Ming]

You guys better chill... because if I don't restrict your ass... you can bet MtG will

[Japher]

That was a strange dp

[SlowwHand]

Is that a severe stutter you have going , Japher?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Sava
oh well, thanks for trying... apparantly the dumb want to prance in my thread and not their own

I don't appreciate the insults. You are the one who doesn't understand that we are addressing the topic.

[Ming]

And Kidicious... what part of my last message did YOU NOT UNDERSTAND... Last warning guys... and it looks like some people will be going down if this crap keeps up.

[Elok]

Originally posted by GePap
Are most of the punishments included in the Bible moral? Should children be stoned to death for disrespecitng thier parents? Is that moral?

If you believe in the single creator God, good for you..end of debate, since I have nothing more to say to such a person on this issue: ater all, what could i say?

If not: what is evil before man joins the scene? Are any actions of, lets say, animals, evil?

I never said I know what good and evil are. I just stated my certainty that they exist. It is dependent partially on my belief in a creator god, yes.
I believe that there is an inherent limitation to our conscience similar to our limitations in the physical world; we cannot sense right or wrong from where we stand any more than we can sense that the earth is round. We have a hard time conceiving the shape of our world because our concept of space is largely shaped by its gravity and our own experience, and we cannot understand good and evil except very loosely and mostly in retrospect because our consciousness is shaped by our personal desires and the innate flaws of our individual perceptions. That is largely what I meant by shades of gray. The black-and-white is there, we just all need glasses, so to speak. It's interesting that, in terms of physics and biology and such, we tend to make the assumption that any unknown quantity shows a need for further investigation, whereas a disparity in morals and philosophy-an older and far more complex set of mental disciplines-the assumption is that what we are looking for simply does not exist, or worse there is a concession that it does exist but we should stop looking for political or social reasons. The alternative is to investigate further, which generally proves far too painful and personal, which in turn is why we as a species can split the atom and travel through outer space and still want more but rely on a continuously shifting base of ethics and controversy and see it as normal. And don't even get me started on that "your opinion is just as valid as mine so let's just say we're both right" BS. What kind of idiot civilization founds itself on the principle that nothing is true? Stumbling around in the dark spitting out quotes from dead philosophers and hoping we're doing the right thing, not trying to turn a light on for fear that someone will be offended. The proof of God is that we are not dead already, living that way.
Evil is, practically speaking, a failure by a conscious being to follow the best possible course of action out of whatever number of choices are available, the choices in any given situation being limited by a similar failure of others who came before. Generally evil is the defiance of reality-an attempt to have things exactly as desired despite the fact that current circumstances don't allow such ideals to be truly fulfilled. The "evil" answer to such limitation is temporary and ultimately destructive circumvention of problems by any means possible.
In response to your Old Testament troll, I call that harsh laws for hard times. At least, that's my guess. I've personally never tried to impose order on a race of fugitive nomads raised in a state of accustomed brutality, but I bet it's a real *****.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Sava
I do.
so is attacking capitalism... which you did
yes it is... get out... you are on my **** list as well. At least Fez had the decency to stop the threadjack...

Fez > Agathon

Well Sava, that is because I like you.

I was very tempted to reply but didn't... some people make fun of a system yet their own is much worse.