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"We're in there whole hog. No turning back. No way of "extracting" ourselves from the situation."
A million barrels and counting...
"extracting"
Yeah, right.
A million barrels and counting...
"extracting"
Yeah, right.
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Long time member @ Apolyton
Civilization player since the dawn of time -
yes you are.
Well, then why would we be spending time with an extraction plan? Best to spend time doing it right.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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I'm paid to see the world as it is, not as I would like it to be. That rules out the kind of wishful thinking most of you engage in.
Wishful thinking is what got America into the Iraq quagmire. It won't get you out.
Of course you'll never get out while you are still in denial about what a c*ck up the Iraq adventure has been.Any views I may express here are personal and certainly do not in any way reflect the views of my employer. Tis the rising of the moon..
Look, I just don't anymore, okay?Comment
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Iraq isn't a quagmire. Alex, either get some common sense or leave this thread.For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)Comment
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What you should be noticing now is the fear and bewilderment in the eyes of the US troops there. That's pretty startling at such an early stage of the campaign.
But very reminiscent of the Russian troops in Chechnya.Any views I may express here are personal and certainly do not in any way reflect the views of my employer. Tis the rising of the moon..
Look, I just don't anymore, okay?Comment
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Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
What you should be noticing now is the fear and bewilderment in the eyes of the US troops there. That's pretty startling at such an early stage of the campaign.
But very reminiscent of the Russian troops in Chechnya.
You are so full of bull****.
Actually I think the US are holding their lines after the death of Qusay and Uday. I think Saddam is getting his revenge now but he is gonna screw up and get himself killed.
Reminsicent of Chechnya? Do you have dyslexia? Or are you just blindly a doom sayer?For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)Comment
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It's not just force protection it is also level of training and equipment. For example the when I was in Kosovo all of the Russians had very then reinforced flack vests made out of kevlar less then half the thickness everyone else had. By contrast most Americans Used Ranger Body Armor which has extra thick kevlar over layed with bullet proof ceramic plates. Who do you think is more likely to survive a shot to the chest?Originally posted by DanS
Well, you would think they could do something about it, like improving their force protection. How is it worse, and how could they make it better?
Also remember that most Russian troops are poorly trained conscripts who are just trying to surviv long enough to finish their conscription and get back home. The Russian Army knows this guy isn't sticking around long (even if he survives) so they don't want to waste scarous money training him more then they have to.Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.Comment
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Alex, my old army unit is over there now and I get regular e-mails from several of my old army buddies. They've told me some scary things but all three of them sound very up beat and all of them make sure to tell me about good things which are happening as well as the bad things.
35 combat casualties in three months is really very light.Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.Comment
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Tell me who is paying you and I will tell you how the world "is"Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
I'm paid to see the world as it is, not as I would like it to be. That rules out the kind of wishful thinking most of you engage in.
"Never trust a man who puts your profit before his own profit." - Grand Nagus Zek, Star Trek Deep Space Nine, episode 11
"A communist is someone who has read Marx and Lenin. An anticommunist is someone who has understood Marx and Lenin." - Ronald Reagan (1911-2004)Comment
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I wouldn't care much about these statements. Let's them say and believe what they want. The only thing that matters is what it is really happening. Just remember some of the "truths" said in the last timesOriginally posted by DanS
And the Bush Administration clearly has no idea how to extract itself with dignity from the Iraq mess.
We're in there whole hog. No turning back. No way of "extracting" ourselves from the situation.
"Afganistan will turn into a deadly trap"
"The coalition is losing the war"
and my favourite, from the Iraqui information minister.
"they have started to commit suicide under the walls of Baghdad"
So let's them say what they want. As Zanussi publicist would say: "Time will give us the reason"
With all those precendents I don't mind much
"Never trust a man who puts your profit before his own profit." - Grand Nagus Zek, Star Trek Deep Space Nine, episode 11
"A communist is someone who has read Marx and Lenin. An anticommunist is someone who has understood Marx and Lenin." - Ronald Reagan (1911-2004)Comment
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If you think the Guerillas weren't total subhuman scum then you know nothing about Vietnam Azazel.Originally posted by Azazel
only that the regime in Vietnam was worse than the Guerillas, and the regime in Afghanistan was better.
I can agree that even a communist dictatorship would be better then religious fanatics though. Reagan was blinded by the desire to get even for the Soviet's proping up the VC so he siezed upon the Mujis in Afghanistan thinking he'd found he's way to get even. It came back and bit us for sure because the Mujis have no honor.Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.Comment
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maybe, but how good was the southern government that you've supported in comparison to the north's?Comment
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It wasn't worse... but not very good. Check out Kissinger's book on ending the Vietnam war. Click here...Originally posted by Azazel
maybe, but how good was the southern government that you've supported in comparison to the north's?
Diem was a very brutal dictator... even Kissinger recognizes this.For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)Comment
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I am sure you'll apperciate some books about the conflict from North Vietnam, as well.
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