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You think Iraq is bad? Look at Chechnya...

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  • #1

    You think Iraq is bad? Look at Chechnya...

    I have to admit that over the last month or so, I've dreaded listening to the news on the radio in the morning, because that's when they announce the deaths from Iraq. Sometimes it's no soldiers. Sometimes it's one soldier.

    But it must really suck to live in Russia and hear about 8 troops getting killed on Thursday in Chechnya, a speck of a province...

    Not Found - The New York Times
    http://www.iht.com/articles/103241.html


    And then about several terrorist attacks outside of Chechnya every day...

    Canada.Com
    http://www.canada.com/news/story.asp?id=50AA094E-225E-4116-9ECA-2204CF161E2C


    It's got to be demoralizing. Do the Russian defense forces not have as good of force protection methods as the American troops, or is it just that the Chechnyans are more skilled fighters than the current crop of dead enders in Iraq?
    I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891
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  • #2
    Do the Russian defense forces not have as good of force protection methods as the American troops


    Yes.
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    • #3
      Well, you would think they could do something about it, like improving their force protection. How is it worse, and how could they make it better?
      I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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      • #4
        Also, does anybody have death totals since '94 and especially over the last year or two?
        I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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        • #5
          Ever since the collapse of the Soviet Union (and before, of course) the Soviet/Russian military has gone down the tubes. As has the rest of the country in terms of economic stability or prosperity.

          Russia is handling this situation very badly.
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          Long live teh paranoia smiley!

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          • #6
            Actually tass I must dispute that. Putin has set aside more money for the military budget after the economy has steadily grown in the past couple of years.... still the situation is very bad. Chechnya is Russia´s forgotten war, that peaceniks tend to ignore because it doesn´t suit their agenda.
            For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Fez
              Actually tass I must dispute that. Putin has set aside more money for the military budget after the economy has steadily grown in the past couple of years....
              While that may be true, it's still not going to save the Russian military anytime soon

              Russia needs to let this war go and focus on more internal interests.
              Eventis is the only refuge of the spammer. Join us now.
              Long live teh paranoia smiley!

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Tassadar5000
                Ever since the collapse of the Soviet Union (and before, of course) the Soviet/Russian military has gone down the tubes. As has the rest of the country in terms of economic stability or prosperity.

                Russia is handling this situation very badly.

                Let's be honest, the High water mark for the Red Army was Berlin, '45.



                They weren't doing to well in the late '70's and '80's in Afghanistan...while at the time the American Military was undergoing a paradigm shift. The American Military went away from "Numbers" and towards "technology and training, training, training, and did we mention training?"

                Of course, the sudden increased in the training tempo scared the sh*t outta the Russians...which caused them to piss more money away...so on and so forth.
                Today, you are the waves of the Pacific, pushing ever eastward. You are the sequoias rising from the Sierra Nevada, defiant and enduring.

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                • #9
                  The Chechens are better organized and armed than the people we are currently fighting in Iraq to start with. And the Russians are using a mixe of troops, some profeesional, lots of them cosnrcipts and internal security forces as opposed to army forces.
                  If you don't like reality, change it! me
                  "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
                  "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
                  "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

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                  • #10
                    Actually, almost all are conscripts from what I hear. Mostly drawn up from neighboring provinces next to Chechyna.
                    For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Tassadar5000


                      While that may be true, it's still not going to save the Russian military anytime soon

                      Russia needs to let this war go and focus on more internal interests.

                      To the Russians, Chechnya is an internal matter.


                      Waits for Serb to remind us how well the war is going
                      Which side are we on? We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We are evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go. I'm surprised you didn't know that. --Saul Tigh

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Sprayber
                        Waits for Serb to remind us how well the war is going
                        He'll probably show up with a pravda links.. stand clear...
                        For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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                        • #13
                          Yeah, seriously. The thread title might as well said "Serb! Git yer arse over here!"
                          Today, you are the waves of the Pacific, pushing ever eastward. You are the sequoias rising from the Sierra Nevada, defiant and enduring.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Sprayber

                            Not to all Russians.

                            Also, one must remember the morale of the Russian troops is low not because of defeats in Chenchya (that contributes, but...) because of how conscripts, etc are treated by more vetran troops. A lot of recruits are killed simply because theyre new, so demoralization starts at the beginning.
                            Eventis is the only refuge of the spammer. Join us now.
                            Long live teh paranoia smiley!

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                            • #15
                              Russia needs to let this war go and focus on more internal interests.

                              In the first war, I would have agreed with you. But giving up on the second war would send the wrong signal about the power of terrorist tactics.
                              I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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