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**PLATO** · July 18, 2003, 22:45

language equivilent of the Borg

**DinoDoc** · July 18, 2003, 22:46

I make no claim about my spelling abilities.

**DAVOUT** · July 19, 2003, 03:17

To be adopted as a French word, e-mail had two problems :
- there is no composed word with an initial being one part in French
- the prononciation of e in french is different from the prononciation in English; therefore, a direct adaptation would have been imail; compared to courriel, already existing as a French word in Canada, it has been judged that the choice was easy.

I would like to point out to Vel and Plato that freedom of expression is not concerned by a technical word; freedom of expression refers to ideas, and you choose the words most appropriate for being understood when you express your ideas.

About the transfer or translation of technical words, it was very interesting to observe how the computer industry created words for new concepts : they used old words in new meanings, such as mouse, icone, file, storage, cut-and-paste, window, etc, and these ords were of course easy to translate in all languages.

The word computer found an interesting translation (suggested by IBM France) in the word ordinateur which belongs to the old vocabulary of the Catholic Church.

The wysiwyg concept is an entirely other game; obviously the guys who created it had fun in designing the word. For the fun of it, one guy suggested *telecritelecran*, which describes thething with a funny sound.

All this could appear frivolous to some of you, but we have been educated in the belief that an efficient communication can only be made with people who agree with us on the meaning of each word, and this is an endless effort.

**Combat Ingrid** · July 19, 2003, 04:14

France this, France that... Can you please get over this obsession?

**RGBVideo** · July 19, 2003, 04:28

BTW, the term is banned on governmental official documents only.

I made a long, long rant from this yesterday against France-bashers. Apolyton server crashed.

Can't be arsed to rewrite it.

, server would just crash again

**DAVOUT** · July 19, 2003, 05:01

Originally posted by Tuomerehu

I made a long, long rant from this yesterday against France-bashers. Apolyton server crashed.

Can't be arsed to rewrite it.

, server would just crash again

This is so frequent and so frustrating

that either I write first in Word, or I make a control c before sending.

**PLATO** · July 19, 2003, 07:58

Originally posted by DAVOUT
I would like to point out to Vel and Plato that freedom of expression is not concerned by a technical word; freedom of expression refers to ideas, and you choose the words most appropriate for being understood when you express your ideas.

I agree, but apparently in France "you choose the words" means something different. State control over any part of free and expressive language is just not right. I have no problem with a French governmental agency saying that this is the preferred word for this or that, but to BAN the use of a world wide accepted term?

**Sandman** · July 19, 2003, 08:14

It's not as if America doesn't do this. Civilian casualties becoming 'collateral damage', for example.

**Q Classic** · July 19, 2003, 08:20

i don't see what's wrong with them trying to pick a different word for email.

if they want to waste time doing it, more power to them. it's none of my concern, and really isn't any of yours...

unless you're a student of french, and then it gives you rights to be pissed off.

**DAVOUT** · July 19, 2003, 08:26

Originally posted by PLATO1003

I agree, but apparently in France "you choose the words" means something different. State control over any part of free and expressive language is just not right. I have no problem with a French governmental agency saying that this is the preferred word for this or that, but to BAN the use of a world wide accepted term?

You are misled by passion

In an above post I explained why, technically, e-mail cannot be adopted as a French word; but many others are adopted as they are written in english when there is no satisfactory equivalent. I discovered recently that happening is now a French word, because we were unable to build an equivalent meaning with the French language tools.

You should not suspect bad intents when we maintain our language, which does not harm or threatten anybody; for us it resort to the same nature of duty than maintaining our cathedrales. Vel will probably say that cathedrales are useless in a country where people no longer go to the church, but we desagree.

**TCO** · July 19, 2003, 10:47

Originally posted by DAVOUT
To be adopted as a French word, e-mail had two problems :
- there is no composed word with an initial being one part in French
- the prononciation of e in french is different from the prononciation in English; therefore, a direct adaptation would have been imail; compared to courriel, already existing as a French word in Canada, it has been judged that the choice was easy.

I would like to point out to Vel and Plato that freedom of expression is not concerned by a technical word; freedom of expression refers to ideas, and you choose the words most appropriate for being understood when you express your ideas.

About the transfer or translation of technical words, it was very interesting to observe how the computer industry created words for new concepts : they used old words in new meanings, such as mouse, icone, file, storage, cut-and-paste, window, etc, and these ords were of course easy to translate in all languages.

The word computer found an interesting translation (suggested by IBM France) in the word ordinateur which belongs to the old vocabulary of the Catholic Church.

The wysiwyg concept is an entirely other game; obviously the guys who created it had fun in designing the word. For the fun of it, one guy suggested *telecritelecran*, which describes thething with a funny sound.

All this could appear frivolous to some of you, but we have been educated in the belief that an efficient communication can only be made with people who agree with us on the meaning of each word, and this is an endless effort.

Guess what moron? You don't need someone to DECIDE what word to use. People will just choose what they want.

**Boris Godunov** · July 19, 2003, 10:56

I couldn't use the word "****" in official government documents. How dare they try to control my speech!!!

Look, it's not nearly the deal people are making it out to be. It does not apply to anything but official government documents, so it is in no way limiting freedom of speech or expression. It's setting a government policy. So what? My company has policies dictating what language I can and can't use in correspondence.

**DAVOUT** · July 19, 2003, 10:59

Originally posted by TCO

Guess what moron? You don't need someone to DECIDE what word to use. People will just choose what they want.

I could be interested in your opinion regarding the difficulty met in translating technical words, if you have any.

But if you are just looking for opportunities to insult people without risk, please feel free to go on.

**TCO** · July 19, 2003, 10:59

I'm not excited by it. I just think they are pretentious snobs.

**TCO** · July 19, 2003, 11:00

Originally posted by DAVOUT

I could be interested in your opinion regarding the difficulty met in translating technical words, if you have any.

But if you are just looking for opportunities to insult people without risk, please feel free to go on.

I already said that all you have to do is let usage choose the frigging word. Clean the wax out of your brain and think, moron.

Announcement

France commits idiotic act to try to show it is superior to America... bans "e-mail"

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