Hong Kong Democrats Victorious...

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Democrats? They won't know if democracy hits them in the head.

It isn't democracy that they are worrying will hit them in the head.

[Sikander]

I visited Hong Kong for about a week in 1968. It was a lot of fun, and very different than today. There were a lot of refugees from Red China who lived very poorly because the government could simply not build housing quickly enough to accomodate them. There were some multi-story buildings, but no memorable skyscrapers like those pictured above. To me it was a fantastic place, very exciting and lively compared to the suburban / rural area I lived in on Okinawa. There was also a wierd Britishness to the place that I assume is quite a bit less pronounced today. Anyway, I wish them luck and hope in this instance that the tail manages to wag the dog.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Sikander
It isn't democracy that they are worrying will hit them in the head.

When you ask one of them, "So this doesn't violate the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, what's so bad about it?" and that person will just give you a blank stare.

[mindseye]

I think the part that was "so bad about it" was that some of the proposed laws were identical to ones that, on the mainland, are routinely used to incarcerate people indefinitely for virtually any reason (just about anything can be somehow construed as "stealing state secrets" or "threatening the state", etc.).

Sounds like a lot of people were also dismayed by Beijing's campaign to hide SARS. That bit of paranoia hit Hong Kongers directly in terms of deaths as well as financial loss.

Apparently many were also concerned over the proposal that groups banned on the mainland could be banned in HK. Given that non-CCP pro-democracy movements on the mainland are ruthlessly eliminated, I could well imagine pro-democracy groups in HK not being particularly comfortable with that provision.

---

It will be very interesting to watch Beijing's response to this. So far it has only been silence, as well as blanket censorship of the story throught the mainland press (yet another thing HKers can be concerned about). My only concern is that this could hinder reform efforts by Hu JinTao. It may give hard-liners ammunition to use against him. On the other hand, Hu may be able to portray the HK protests as a sign that the Party must accellerate reforms or risk more of the same.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by mindseye
I think the part that was "so bad about it" was that some of the proposed laws were identical to ones that, on the mainland, are routinely used to incarcerate people indefinitely for virtually any reason (just about anything can be somehow construed as "stealing state secrets" or "threatening the state", etc.).

Surely all Western countries have similar laws to be used against foreign agents and such.

Originally posted by mindseye
Apparently many were also concerned over the proposal that groups banned on the mainland could be banned in HK. Given that non-CCP pro-democracy movements on the mainland are ruthlessly eliminated, I could well imagine pro-democracy groups in HK not being particularly comfortable with that provision.

Again, Western countries surely have laws for outlawing groups they deem harmful in a variety of ways.

Originally posted by mindseye
It will be very interesting to watch Beijing's response to this. So far it has only been silence, as well as blanket censorship of the story throught the mainland press (yet another thing HKers can be concerned about).

A recent survey indicates 84% of Hong Kong people care about the economy, only a whopping 5% care about politics. You also have to realise there is a very real cultural difference between US's individualism and China's focus on social stability and prosperity as a whole.

[DanS]

A recent survey indicates 84% of Hong Kong people care about the economy, only a whopping 5% care about politics.

As SARS shows in relief, there's really no way of separating politics and economics.

[Sava]

Good... I think the people of Hong Kong should decide what type of government they want. Democracy

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by DanS
As SARS shows in relief, there's really no way of separating politics and economics.

Politics < > Policies

[DanS]

Eh?

[Urban Ranger]

What does SARS have anything to do with politics?

[DanS]

Sounds like a lot of people were also dismayed by Beijing's campaign to hide SARS. That bit of paranoia hit Hong Kongers directly in terms of deaths as well as financial loss.

[Urban Ranger]

At ground zero, most of us were a bit upset at the PRC not telling us sooner about the disease. Other than that, we don't care one way or another, let alone "paranoia."

[Sava]

sorry for interjecting an irrelevant opinion, but I hate it when people use the term ground zero loosely. Ground zero is used to described the area directly affected by a nuclear blast. I hated it when the media referred to the WTC as Ground Zero. As bad as that destruction was, it was incomparable to the destruction of a nuclear attack. Please stop misrepresenting that term, UR... thanks.

[Urban Ranger]

Sava,

Main Entry: ground zero
Function: noun
Date: 1946
1 : the point directly above, below, or at which a nuclear explosion occurs
2 : the center or origin of rapid, intense, or violent activity or change
3 : the very beginning : SQUARE ONE

[Sava]

shaddup