The Best War Movie

[Serb]

Originally posted by Pekka
Serb, ok.. why you said that now I want to drink too..

Good,
You said that you wanted to ask unknown girl from the street to share your meal, did you succeded? Remember, I wished you good luck?
That's all, my buddies will kill me if I'll not return within one minute. I'll answer tommorow.

[Pekka]

And besides even if it was 80 000 (which is laughable argument), was it worth it? I don't think so. Because it was for nothing. It was for lunatic maniac leader who was paranoid. No life is worth it. Even 1 dead soldiers is too much for that. And instead of being angry to your paranoid leader, you block it and try to haggle with the numbers, AND avoid real subject, that is the most important: You have no use for the lands anymore, and we'd like to have it back, because it's ours. And you don't even want to discuss about it. Why not just getting pass the little things and talk about it, it can't hurt anyone.

[Pekka]

Answer later..

No I didn't succeed . I had a girl eating with me, but she was my friend so.. no random sex for me!
Now go on, get back and drink with your buddies.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Pekka
MUhaaheahehaeah, what are your sources? Pravda?
Man get a grip.. And most KIAs were because of cold weather and poor support, not because of our firing. That is admitted. I'm not saying we were superior to ratio 1:10. You just got owned by the terrain that's it...
But I consider these terrain deaths as KIAs too, as they were dead soldiers and not MIAs. And because that was our tactics, and we used lots of movement and strategies to make it happen.

But with your last post, I'm really starting to think if you are brain washed

Damn Pekka, can't you weait for tommorow?
I said KIA, not total losses. Total losses was about 300 000+ soldiers. I don't have my source right now and don't have time right now. This source is reasearch made after fall of Soviet Union, based on classified documents of red army HQ.
Wait till tommorow.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Serb
Yeah, right. Like commisars with whistles, like war corespondents acting like paparaci (sp?), like 'human wave' attack, like boy wearing short pants in the middle of winter, not to mention he was very clear for citizen of completely destroyed city, like German officer giving chocolate to Russian boy when in reallity Germans were happy when they catch a rat for dinner, like Khrushev and Zaitsev warshiping to Stalin's portrait like to some kind of idol, like destroyed T-34/85 on streets of Stalingad when T-34/85 was not created yet, like Russian women, her son and Zaitsev's girl freind living in house when in reallity people lived in sewers because city was completely destroyed by bombs and there were less than half of a dozen undestroyed houses, like unshaved Russian soldier who trained Zaitsev, like Russian soldiers singing in the baracks, like female soldier and her cosmetics etc, etc, etc. It's only a tip of the iceberg.

Well...

I should let you talk to my mother-in-law. She lived (still a girl) in a small village near Novgorod, occupied by a German airwing. Thankfully not SS and Gestapo crap as she explains, but halfway educated people, many of them officers. She told, the first chocolate of her life she indeed received from the Germans. They did not harass the locals, built a road, which is the best one around even till these days, and other infrastructure. Even the school house where she learned was built by Germans. The latter fact is hard to believe even for me, but she insists. So I believe the building was perhaps used as club house or meeting room in the evenings.

My point is not to justify the occupants or that war at all. I think she had goddamn luck with that air unit, as everybody knows about the atrocities committed by the occupation forces at other places. My point is, that every war movie on either side is a big piece of propaganda. I have seen a crapload of them, American, British, Russian, German and other movies. I know of no one decent and halfway objective. They all are made around the assumption "We are 100% good and they are 100% evil". Well except the German ones, of course, but even they are mainly wrapped around the "not every German was evil" thesis.

Movies are propaganda, face the fact. Russian movies too. Look at "Osvobozhdenie" (8 series), or "Velikaya Otechestvennaya" (20 series). They are at least 75% history and 25% propaganda. Maybe even 50-50. Fact the fact. What Russian would like to see the mass looting of German civilians and the mass raping of German women after the victory? They aren't shown in any movie. Nevertheless they are a historical fact. True, the Germans did the same, but remember, they are 100% evil. So somehow your soldiers can't be 100% good. Simple logic.

Movies are made to please the own citizens. To generate pride. This is true for totalitarian systems (for obvious reasons) as well as for free-market systems, as movies too critical to the own country would be bad for business.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Pekka
Answer later..

No I didn't succeed . I had a girl eating with me, but she was my friend so.. no random sex for me!
Now go on, get back and drink with your buddies.

Too bad, better luck next time I guess.
I'm log off.

[Pekka]

I know I know... in a way you're correct, I just calculate differently. But I still argue it wasn't worth it, not for you and not for us. OK... I'll wait, I'm in no hurry.

I won't answer anything more until tomorrow so you can have your beers

[Serb]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph


Well...

I should let you talk to my mother-in-law. She lived (still a girl) in a small village near Novgorod, occupied by a German airwing. Thankfully not SS and Gestapo crap as she explains, but halfway educated people, many of them officers. She told, the first chocolate of her life she indeed received from the Germans. They did not harass the locals, built a road, which is the best one around even till these days, and other infrastructure. Even the school house where she learned was built by Germans. The latter fact is hard to believe even for me, but she insists. So I believe the building was perhaps used as club house or meeting room in the evenings.

My point is not to justify the occupants or that war at all. I think she had goddamn luck with that air unit, as everybody knows about the atrocities committed by the occupation forces at other places. My point is, that every war movie on either side is a big piece of propaganda. I have seen a crapload of them, American, British, Russian, German and other movies. I know of no one decent and halfway objective. They all are made around the assumption "We are 100% good and they are 100% evil". Well except the German ones, of course, but even they are mainly wrapped around the "not every German was evil" thesis.

Movies are propaganda, face the fact. Russian movies too. Look at "Osvobozhdenie" (8 series), or "Velikaya Otechestvennaya" (20 series). They are at least 75% history and 25% propaganda. Maybe even 50-50. Fact the fact. What Russian would like to see the mass looting of German civilians and the mass raping of German women after the victory? They aren't shown in any movie. Nevertheless they are a historical fact. True, the Germans did the same, but remember, they are 100% evil. So somehow your soldiers can't be 100% good. Simple logic.

Movies are made to please the own citizens. To generate pride. This is true for totalitarian systems (for obvious reasons) as well as for free-market systems, as movies too critical to the own country would be bad for business.

Ralph, (may I call you Ralph without this 'Sir' thing?) I perfectly realize that Soviet movies were full of propaganda, as well as American or anyone else movies. And you are absolutely corect about this "they are evil, we are good" thing. It's exactly what I meant when I said that those movies were for 'internal consumption'. But, could you please answer one question, did you see 'enemy at the gates'? This movie really sucks. Because it's full of propaganda. It's full of propaganda of cold war times when yannks created a myth about Russian hordes. It's full of western propaganda and it really sucks.
As for choclate, you really do not need to convince me that this story is true. I'm pretty sure that it was. It doesn't mean that I think that German invasion was OK, but it doesn't mean that I think that every German acted like Soviet movies tell so. Not at all. Once again I perfectly realize that Soviet movies contained some propaganda, but I think it's quite normal thing. Look at American movies for example. Those movies are full of such crap. In comparsion with American directors/propaganda makers Soviet directors are unexpirenced virgins.
I bring this example about chocolate to just to point out the silliness of this movie. The officer of surrounded army give a chocolate and other food like "salo" to Russian boy (the boy who clean boots of German soldiers. In surrounded Stalingrad I just can't imagine such kind of crap. Like Germansoldiers in Stalingrad really cared about their boots. ) when German army was starving. I find this unbielivable. If it was in 1941 near Novgorod, I would believe, but in 1943 in surrounded Stalingrad when surrounded German soldiers were ready to kill for small piece of bread. It's just unbelievable.
This movie is total ****, if you never saw it, just don't watch it. Ity doesn't worth it.

Sorry, I'm a bit drunk right now.

Respect.

[TCO]

I was gonna say Mister Roberts...

[Main_Brain]

A Bridge too far

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Serb
Ralph, (may I call you Ralph without this 'Sir' thing?)

You can, but be aware, that it's not my name.

It's exactly what I meant when I said that those movies were for 'internal consumption'. But, could you please answer one question, did you see 'enemy at the gates'?

I'm not sure. Here are 99.9% of all movies synchronized and have a translated and often slightly changed title. I have seen a lot of bad american war movies, may be it was among them.

In surrounded Stalingrad I just can't imagine such kind of crap. Like Germansoldiers in Stalingrad really cared about their boots. ) when German army was starving. I find this unbielivable. If it was in 1941 near Novgorod, I would believe, but in 1943 in surrounded Stalingrad when surrounded German soldiers were ready to kill for small piece of bread. It's just unbelievable.

I agree, in surrounded Stalingrad they would have been happy with a fried rat. The locals too, btw, their situation was even worse.

Have a nice weekend. I will too. My son is visiting me after 7 or 8 months of absence.

[SpencerH]

In no particular order

Das Boot (the german version)-one word, tension
Black Hawk Down-Interesting to see that things are still as ****ed-up as they were in my day
Waterloo-Absolutely epic battle scenes with ten thousand Russian soldiers as extras
A Bridge too far- I had just finished jump training when it came out - I always liked the Brit who carried an umbrella cos he forgot the passwords. I had the same problem once in a funny (now) encounter coming back off patrol (where I didnt have an umbrella).
All quiet on the western front-A bit too clean but still brilliant.

[Barley]

I have an interesting question (well I think it is anyway).

Many of the British poly members here have named typically British slanted films that we believe are classics e.g.
Zulu
Bridge over the River Kwi
The Dam Busters
Battle of Britain
Guns of Naverone
The Cruel Sea
etc etc.

Do non British citizens see these as classics as well, i.e. in the same way that I appreciate films like Battle Of Midway, Platoon etc as classics (the German and Japenese perspective would be interesting to!)

Im interested to know as there is a very strong patriotic theme to many of them and in the case of the British films a very imperialistic slant.


Oh another goof film - 55 Days in Peking.

[Barley]

Are we saying Das Bout is the best war film ever? it seems by the reponses its either that or Saving Private Ryan? with Platoon / Apocolypse now pretty close to.

Oh and before anyone corrects me about my previous post, I meant to best 'good''

[Barley]

Oh ****e....... nearly forgot another classic.

The Great Escape.