Car Troubles

[Japher]

The warrenty was for 5 years or 35,000 miles, both of which I am over... Though some parts do have extended warrenties, yet that would not cover labor...

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
That's what you get for buying American cars...are they as bad as French cars?

Sorry Harrison but that's just plain wrong. Check out any of the quality info like J.D. Powers orf Wards and you'll see that American cars almost always have fewer problems then German & Swedish cars (we're talking $20k American cars being better built and having few problems the $50k German ones), way fewer then other Euro cars (Italian, French, British [what's left of them] or Korean cars, and just a few percentage points behind the better Japanese makes (Honda, Toyota, Suburu) and well ahead of the lesser Japanese makes (Isuzu, Suzuiki, Mitsubishi).

[Provost Harrison]

American cars have an international reputation for being lumps of crap

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison


American cars have an international reputation for being lumps of crap

Ignorance. The world had an international reputation for being flat but everyone was wrong.

Perception always trails reality.

[Jac de Molay]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison


American cars have an international reputation for being lumps of crap

As opposed to the bulletproof quality of british models??

Ford had to buy jaguar out they sucked so bad...

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
Fitting a new injector isn't tricky, a new ECU on the otherhand is...

I remember replacing an injector on my old GTI. All it took was a deep socket set, a torque wrench, and about five minutes. The two ECUs I've messed with were complete self contained boxes with plugs in them. You just unplugged the unit and plugged in the new one.

Still the new units were always $$$. Even my 1975 fuel injected beattle's ECU cost something like $500 new. Fortunately I was able to find a replacement ECU at the junk yard for $80 but still...

[JohnT]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison


American cars have an international reputation for being lumps of crap

Coming from an Englishman, this is indeed!

[Asher]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Sorry Harrison but that's just plain wrong. Check out any of the quality info like J.D. Powers orf Wards and you'll see that American cars almost always have fewer problems then German & Swedish cars (we're talking $20k American cars being better built and having few problems the $50k German ones), way fewer then other Euro cars (Italian, French, British [what's left of them] or Korean cars, and just a few percentage points behind the better Japanese makes (Honda, Toyota, Suburu) and well ahead of the lesser Japanese makes (Isuzu, Suzuiki, Mitsubishi).

Sorry Oerdin, what you're talking about is JD Powers & Associate's initial quality awards.

Initial quality just means how many defects per X many cars are detected for each brand when they hit the car lot.

Everyone knows American cars are great til they're 4+ years old, then they go to ****.

Go check your Lemonaide/Used Cars buyers guide, there's a reason why American cars don't hold their value at all compared to Japanese/German cars.

[Dinner]

Sorry Asher but that won't be true no matter how many times you claim American cars fall apart after X number of years. Some Japanese makes (notably Toyota & Honda) can command higher resale because buyers percieve higher quality but many Japanese makes (Mitsubishi, Suzuki, Mazda, Iszusu, and until recently Nissans) drop just as fast if not faster then Domestic models. Also Honda and Japan often limit the number of units they make or import so it is less then demand so they can charge a price primium.

The big three are saddled with lots of factories and a heavily unionized work force which threatens to strike every time Management tries to rationalize the excess factory space. The result? It's cheaper for them to way over produce models and sell them at steep discounts then it is to close the excess factories, put up with the weeks of strikes, and pay the endless lay off benifets the Unions will demand for redundant workers.

Since production by the big three if forced to be greater then demand is it any wonder prices drop? I mean if I want a late model Pontiac there are a dozen different dealers/sellers with the right color, options, and what not to choice from while a late model Honda will have much less selection availible since so many fewer were produced and sold in the US market.

[Dinner]

Asher: You're going to find the simple anwser is almost always wrong and when you look closer the real anwser is much more complicated.

[JohnT]

Vehicle dependability rankings are owned by the Japanese, with three historically European cars finishing above the industry average: Porsche, Jaguar, and BMW. Given that the Yanks have 4 on the list (http://www.jdpa.com/studies/pressrel...ID=692&CatID=1), having a Brit laughing about American car dependibility is pretty damned funny... and it would be funny the other away around, of course.

Otoh, not a single European car was tops for its category except for "Premium Sports Car", a market that isn't really sought after by the Japs and Americans.

[Asher]

Well, all I know is anecdotal evidence with friends and family (Uncle works QA at the Ford Plant in St. Thomas, Ontario) from their own cars for how crappy they are for long-term reliability. On the other hand, my family with Toyotas and friends with Subarus and Hondas don't have any problems, or if they do they're very rare.

Hell, my best friend drives a 1985 Corolla Elite and it's still working perfectly fine, hasn't given him any trouble in the three years he's owned it.

Whereas they've replaced the entire engine in his friend's 1990 Dodge pickup.

And it's not only anecdotal evidence, but resale value.

Sure, you can get American cars that give you zero problems or Japanese cars riddled with them, but in general that's not the case.

I'm not sure how you can blind yourself to the obvious so well.

[JohnT]

It's not "blinding ourselves to the obvious" it's "not relying on anecdotal 'information'. "

[Asher]

Originally posted by JohnT
It's not "blinding ourselves to the obvious" it's "not relying on anecdotal 'information'. "

So how do you explain the resale values?

Edit: and Oerdin's explanation is just funny.

[JohnT]

Well, his observation that people will pay for what they think they are getting rather than what they actually are getting is very true and is the foundation of modern economics.