The End of the Russian Arms industry

[Saras]

Israel is not 1st world. It is an "Emerging market". As is Russia, Lithuania and :gasp: greece.

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by panag
but where is that bs from six years coming from , it has never been like that , and never shall be like it , ......

In a recent thread, both Azazel and Eli wrote that they were going to spend 6 years in the army (not as grunts, of course, and maybe well paid during the last 3 years, but still in the army) .

[Saras]

Originally posted by panag


hi ,

14.358 usd a year , ......

have a nice day

PPP weighted:

USA 35k
Israel 19k
Russian Federation 7800

Source: Worldbank.org

[Panag]

Originally posted by The Vagabond


In a recent thread, both Azazel and Eli wrote that they were going to spend 6 years in the army (not as grunts, of course, and maybe well paid during the last 3 years, but still in the army) .

hi ,

thats cause they want to be different from the others , .....

how realistical would it be if we where to draft each men and woman for six years , ......

there is a huge difference between making a choice out of your own free wil and to be drafted or conscripted , ..... (!)

have a nice day

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by Saras
Israel is not 1st world. It is an "Emerging market". As is Russia, Lithuania and :gasp: greece.

OK then. It's nice to be in the same group with Israel, Lithuania and Greece.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Saras



PPP weighted:

USA 35k
Israel 19k
Russian Federation 7800

Source: Worldbank.org

hi ,

net income for the first three months of 03 , .....

but there is always some difference in them numbers , ....

have a nice one

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by panag
there is a huge difference between making a choice out of your own free wil and to be drafted or conscripted , ..... (!)

OK, then I don't understand well the draft system in Israel. Are you drafted for 3 years?

[Cruddy]

Originally posted by Saras
Israel is not 1st world. It is an "Emerging market". As is Russia, Lithuania and :gasp: greece.

Is emerging market status determined by the gap between richest and poorest? If so, UK has been there for 100s of years...

[Saras]

Originally posted by panag


hi ,

net income for the first three months of 03 , .....

but there is always some difference in them numbers , ....

have a nice one

What? Your style is very vague.

[Saras]

Originally posted by Cruddy


Is emerging market status determined by the gap between richest and poorest? If so, UK has been there for 100s of years...

Wtf? It is vaguely determined by a rapidly growing economy (from a low starting point), most often lots of capital imports (negative current account) and generally lower standards of living than in the Western world.

And please no bleeding heart social commentary.

[Panag]

Originally posted by The Vagabond


OK, then I don't understand well the draft system in Israel. Are you drafted for 3 years?

hi ,

nope , .......

some people go in and stay for longer , it also gets a bigger paycheck , then they go to work after 15 years for the gov , get one rank higher then the army there , and are moved to the reserves , .... humping around with combat boots 6 to 8 weeks a year , .....

Israel's reserves are without doubt the number one in the world

there are also programs in the borderguards , mfa , police , a whole rimram of options and careers , ....

have a nice day

[Serb]

Originally posted by panag


hi ,

and how many are flying , .....

Some.

how many where shot down allready , ......

None.

how many fly without them anti aircraft missile defenses due to the lack of money , ......

them little things you see falling off over a combatzone to distract aa missiles , ........

standard ops in some republic that starts with a "C" , two helicopters fly in formation , only one has the defenses loaded , ......

Blah...blah...blah...what a mess.
You're talking about Mi-24 tactics, not Ka-50. I'm not surprised that you don't know the difference betwen them.

and lets be real , if they would have all the money they would need the would kick some but in some mountains with snow , .....
have a nice day

Listen boy, the second war in Chechnya is OVER. It was finished after two months of fighting. Russian army was victorius. It did already kicked some butts in mountains. You should better watch how your own army deals with Arabs.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Serb

Some.

None.

Blah...blah...blah...what a mess.
You're talking about Mi-24 tactics, not Ka-50. I'm not surprised that you don't know the difference betwen them.

Listen boy, the second war in Chechnya is OVER. It was finished after two months of fighting. Russian army was victorius. It did already kicked some butts in mountains. You should better watch how your own army deals with Arabs.

hi ,

listen "boy" , if you believe the war in chechnya is over , .... well go and take a look then , .....

and no , even a six year old "boy" would know the difference between a mi24 and a ka 50 , .....

call the mod and ask the official numbers , hence , if the embassy in Israel can do , then the mod must be able to do so also , .....

and if the russian army is so victorious , then why the heck are they still getting killed , ....

our army is not broke , we can still feed it , we can still make ammo , we can still do a lot more then what happens in chechnya , ..... at least we dont need to hold un and local people hostage to get ransoms to buy food , .....

have a nice day

[Panag]

hi ,

btw , there is not a single ka50 in chechnya since jan 2001 , ....

The KA-50 is a state-of-the-art and powerful battle helicopter which is in limited service with the Russian Air Force. This aircraft is not fielded. Only a handful of prototypes exist, and it has not yet been approved for full-scale production. There are two versions of the Hokum. The Ka-50 Hokum-A is a single seat close support helicopter and the Ka-52 Hokum-B two seat trainer and combat version.

Ka-50 "Black Shark" is a single-seat attack helicopter for destroying armored vehicles, slow-speed air targets and manpower on the battlefield. The Mi-28N and Kamov Ka-50 are competing to fulfil the Russian Army Aviation requirement for a night-capable anti-tank helicopter, a replacement to the Mi-24 created 25 years ago.

The airframe features perfect aerodynamic outlines, mid-set stub wing, retractable three-leg landing gear and empennage of a fixed-wing aircraft type. The equally tapered, short, stubby, weapon-carrying wings with end plates are mounted on the streamlined fuselage, which tapers to the front and rear. The fuselage, which is flat-bottomed except for the underbelly gun pod and sensor, features a flat plated glassed-in canopy. The tail is thick with a tapering tail boom and back-tapered tail fin with a square tip. The tail flats are high-mounted on the tail boom with end plates, and located forward of the fin. Twin turboshaft engines are mounted high on the fuselage above the stubby wings, with semicircular air intakes and exhausts that are turned outward.

Coaxial Ka-50 helicopter has two three-blade rotors of 14.5-m diameter each. The polymeric composite blade is attached to the hub by a torsion bar. The coaxial, contrarotating, three-blade main rotors are widely separated with swept-back tips, and there is no tail rotor. The pilot cockpit is fully armored. The emergency pilot escape system, comprising an ejection seat, saves the pilot within the entire flight speed and altitude range. A set of improved survivability means allows Ka-50 to attack successfully the specified targets and to survive under intensive fire counteraction.

The helicopter has a number of unique characteristics including single seat to increase combat and flight characteristics and reduce operational costs. It was designed for remote operations, and not to need ground maintenance facilities for 2 weeks. The airframe is 35% composite materials with a structural central 1m 2 keel beam of kevlar/ nomex that protects critical systems and ammunition. The fully armored pilot's cabin can withstand 23-mm gunfire, and the cockpit glass 12.7-mm MG gunfire. The Zvezda K-37-800 pilot ejection system functions at any altitude, and enables a successful ejection at low altitude and maximum speed.

Numerous weapons options for the helicopter are achieved by arranging a movable high-speed firing gun starboard of the helicopter, and by six available external wing stores with different combination of anti-tank missiles, rockets, "air-to-air" missiles, gun ammunition of a container type and bombs of various caliber. Total weight of the weapons on the wing stores is 2,300 kg. External stores are mounted on underwing external hardpoints. Each wing has two hardpoints for a total of four stations. A typical mix for targeting armor formations is 12x AT-16 ATGMs, 500x 30-mm cannon rounds, and 2x 20-round pods of 80-mm folding fin unguided rockets. The 30-mm cannon is the same as on the BMP-2. It also carries guided air-to-air missiles IGLA-V (Needle C), already extensively tested and sold to buyers abroad.

Ka-50 "Black Shark" helicopter were armed with 12 supersonic anti-tank missiles with standardized seekers against armored, ground-based and air targets, movable rapid-firing 30-mm gun having 450-rounds of ammunition, as well as with bombs and other destruction means. Fully armored cockpit of Ka-50 safely protects the pilot against armour-piercing 12.7-mm bullets and fragmentations of 23-mm projectiles. In case of oil system damage the Ka-50 is capable to continue combat mission for 30 minutes.

The Shark's avionics is largely in line with what is the norm for one-seater fighters and ground attack jets. The on-board avionics suite ensures helicopter piloting and control including the use of satellite navigational system, 24 hours a day, in anytime of the year. The observation, search and sighting systems comprising TV, laser and IR equipment are capable to detect targets and to fire the full arsenal of weapons in day and night conditions. It's most remarkable feature is a remote targeting system with a capability to provide for a sudden deadly attack from a distance that rules out direct visual contact with the target. The firing computer will turn the aircraft to keep the gun on target. It is equipped with downlink to provide information from the battlefield. The targeting and control system and weaponry enable accurate target engagement at ranges of up to 10km.

The KA-50 features unique maneuvrability and operating characteristics due to the contra-rotating co-axial rotors. The coaxial counter-rotating rotor system negates the need for a tail rotor and its drive system. Because of this, this aircraft is unaffected by wind strength and direction, has an unlimited hovering turn rate, and gives a smaller profile and acoustic signature, while allowing a 10-15% greater power margin. The HOKUM is fully aerobatic. It can perform loops, roll, and “the funnel”, where the aircraft will maintain a concentrated point of fire while flying circles of varying altitude, elevation, and airspeed around the target.

In January 2001 combat tests of two Ka-50 attack helicopters in Chechnya which are being operated for the Joint Armed Forces (JAF) came to an end. The "Black Sharks" had destroyed 30 large-scale objectives (large groups of Chechen rebels, clusters of vehicles and bases in hard-to-reach mountain areas). The specialists who perform the tests noted the high reliability of the helicopter, its ability to perform combat missions at altitudes above 5,000 m that is beyond the power of the Mi-24 fire support helicopters. Having high-performance electronic equipment on-board the "Black Sharks" were able to easily detect and destroy the detected targets.



oh , and if there is no war , the how come that more people are being killed there every week the in the entire ME in two months , .....

have a nice day

[Panag]

Beginning in 1997 Kamov company, in partnership with IAI, began competing in the tender for a $4 billion contract for the supply of 145 combat helicopters to the Turkish Army. In compliance with the tender requirements, KAMOV/IAI group submitted the required documentation on the Ka-50-2 Erdogan tandem twin-sitter in November 1999. On 06 March 2000, Bulent Ecevit, the Prime Minister of Turkey, announced that Boeing and Eurocopter, French/German company, would be excluded from the list of the Bidders for the combat helicopters supply contract. Among the remaining competitors for the contract award are KAMOV/IAI (Israel Aircraft Industries Ltd.) group with its Ka-50-2 Erdogan, Agusta company from Italy with its A129 Mongoose and Belltextron company from the USA with its AH-1Z King Cobra.

IAI and Kamov teamed together to offer the tandem-seater Ka-50-2, the world's most powerful attack helicopter, in reponse to the Turkish Land Forces (TLF) requirement for 145 attack helicopters. IAI and Kamov complied with the Turkish requirement for a tandem cockpit by reconfiguring the existing side-by-side configuration to a tandem one. The Turkish version of the Ka-50-2 is called ERDOGAN. Another Turkish requirement, which was achieved by IAI and Kamov is the integration of a turret gun instead the original fixed gun. The new ERDOGAN uses a folding turret gun, as an integral part of its armament system.

The Ka-50-2 is the product of a joint effort by Israel Aircraft Industries' Lahav Division, a world leader in avionics modernization and the Kamov Company, the developer of advanced coaxial rotor technology. Kamov is responsible for the helicopter airframe, with its various subsystems, while IAI is responsible for the avionics and weapons delivery system. The integration of a state-of-the-art Western avionics suite with a robust Eastern platform offers best value, in terms of both performance and price.

The Ka-50-2, with its combat proven avionics and advanced anti-tank guided missiles, offers a high level of combat effectiveness. Moreover, the helicopter features superior flight performance, safe and easy piloting and high combat survivability due to its unique coaxial rotor technology and sound aeronautical engineering.

The Ka-50-2 is equipped with IAI's flexible modular avionics suite, which can be readily tailored to meet the TLF's operational requirements and provides extensive growth potential.

IAI and Kamov conducted successful demonstration flights of the Russian helicopter with IAI's Core Avionics. These demonstration flights demonstrated the helicopter's "Glass Cockpit" with multifunctional displays and Control & Display Unit (CDU) driven by centralized Mission and Display computers, flight navigation and the operation of the Helicopter Multi-Mission Optronic Stabilized Payload (HMOSP) targeting system. The demonstration flights included night mission capability demonstrations, utilizing Night Vision Goggles (NVG) and the day/night targeting system.

After eliminating Italy's Agusta (A129-I), it was announced in March 2000 that the US company Bell Helicopter-Textron with its AH-IZ King Cobra had come in first and the Russian-Israeli Kamov/IAI consortium with its KA-50/52-Erdogan had come in second. Disappointed with Turkey's elimination of the French-German Eurocopter consortium from its $4 billion attack helicopter co-production project, French President Jacques Chirac has reportedly decided to suspend his state visit to Turkey this spring.