RIAA vs. hackers WAR?

[Inverse Icarus]

legally, you're allowed to rip your own CDs, and any company stopping you from doig that can be sued.

realistically, capitialism prevents you from suing them.

big business > rights

[Pekka]

UR, I agree. I buy lots of vinyls, and spend a fortune to them. I know what I like, what labels I like, and fortunately I know source where they are being released on mp3s. Sure I could go to groovetech.com and listen the sound clips, but I like listening the whole tracks, it is important to me, and I don't have a record shop with music of my likings near me, so I like the fact, that I can listen the vinyls I am about to buy first. And if I like it, I WILL buy it. Sure I also downloads lots of crap that I'm not about to buy, so it's not like some kind of saint.

But the point is, what I like, I'll buy. I won't buy CDs, because they're so fricking expensive, and because I can't play them with my decks .

It saves me lots of time and some money too. Actually I still spend the same money (almost everything I have) anyway, I just buy more quality music, music that I like. My money is not being wasted on music that I think is promising but I'm not sure. So, the industry is not losing any money because of me, as I still give the same amount of money. Maybe even more money, because there is so much good music out there. And as for the mp3s I have and albums I'm not about to buy.. well I can't literally afford them anyway, so it's not away from the industry, even when I'm stealing it.

[Pekka]

And more about these mp3players... the manufactures knows the key factors of a good player. The best one is that can storage the most and is still relatively small. So the essential thing is, that you can stuff as much mp3s as possible. Does everyone have 5000 CDs? Maybe someone has, but the trend is clear, and it is very clear that the point is to benefit from the trend of mp3s and p2p-networks offering mp3s.

If Madonna is so worried that her albums are being copied, and that's shes losing so much money, would she give me the album free if I was poor african child? I didn't think so. She goes there acting saint and singing about hypocrites etc, but she's one too. Too bad I don't like her music so I'm not even downloading it.

Some people upgrade their ancient internet connections just so that they can leech those mp3s faster than with 28.8 modem. That gives mroe money to different manufacturers, ISPs etc. Maybe that's why ISPs are reluctant to really step in. They say they're being against all this illegal trading, but they're not doing anything to stop it. They would lose money.
And mp3players manufacturers would lose one helluva market. Creative would lose a big market here; they have created a player, and are makign new players. Producing them is not very cheap. They have calculated how much they will make money, and profit. If they suddenly couldn't sell these, then they'd be pissed I guess. Maybe they have enough money and lobbyists to keep there business safe, while RIAA attacks consumers and p2p-network users.

[Pekka]

So, in order RIAA not being hypocrite themselves, they need to prioritize things. First they need to get the ones who makes money because of this. That means attacking factories in eastern europe and in asia, that are controlled by organized crime. They are making big money, while p2p-network users are not making any money. Then they need to attack companies that makes mp3players. They make money and benefit from 'illegal' activities the most, and they know it. The exploit the situation. All these folks, they are making big business, so maybe that's why RIAA is not so quick to attack.

And that's why they're making a big mistake. People will see them as hypocrites. Consumers don't like them because of the double standards.

If they want to stop the mp3s from travelling, the only thing they can do is to change the attitudes of the people. That they don't want to download mp3s. Otherwise it's impossible. But with aggressive attack and being hypocrite about it, they will lose. They need to be more sneaky.

[Pekka]

And it should be noticed, that some smaller labels are actually making more money. Why? Because the money has transferred from bigger labels to the smaller and more unknown ones. Why? Because people are now able to check out music scene so much better, they can listen to any kind of music, any artist and find what they like. There should be research not showing how much people download mp3s, but how much money people use to buy music, and how it's been developing for the last 10 to 15 years. That way we know how much money there is in the industry, and is it so dramatically dropping as RIAA claims.

This puts a big pressure to bigger labels, that makes crap music. I'm talking about the ones that make one hit, and then fill the rest of the albums with something they hired some guy to do. People have always complained about that. So, now when people can access all kinds of music, labels and artists, they find new good stuff, and then they go buy them. Big companies lose money, because there's a pressure to lift their standards and quality of products. This costs more money. So instead of investing to that, they decide to go for the cheaper one and blame the consumer with a middle man so they don't look so bad themselves. Without big companies making huge profits and being uncertain of themselves, there wouldn't even be the need for RIAA. And that is one reason why people don't like RIAA either.

So, why some smaller labels are not making a big fuss about it? Because they're making more money! It brings more quality music to the markets, that people who can afford them can buy them. It's true competition, other ones are just being sissies and using middle men to blame and condemn stupid consumers to hell who are not smart enough to buy their crappy albums, while smaller labels with quality music are being more happy that their music is being discovered.

[Pekka]

Many of my points can be argued and there would be no absolute truth. But all I'm saying is, that consumers and p2p-network users are not the only ones who are being hypocrite. Sure, two wrongs doesn't make it right.

But it gets worrying, when there are very few people who refuse to listen to CD because it has been downloaded from the internet and burned with a home CD-R. When my mom asks me to get few records and burn to her.. then you know you are against people who you cant win, because they simply don't see it being too wrong. Or maybe all people are too greedy in the nature, but it still doesn't change the fact that they can't win this battle. That brings to my mind, how much mp3s has actually raised the sells of CD-Rs? Or how about empty CDs? 'Yeah we all burn our documents'... sure.
Or why people buy bigger HDs? Because OS today take over 1 gig of space, so they need that other 100 gigs for their documents, e-mails and to cache their browsers? I don't think so. Or are everyone graphic designers, so their work at HOME takes so much space????

It is also too late to put up campagns 'downloading is wrong!!11111111' claiming stuff that isn't even true. THey should have done it earlier.

Or how do you say it 'quitters never win and winners never quit, but only stupid people continue trying when you can't win'.. something like that.

[Whaleboy]

Lets not forget the key argument of the RIAA etc is that p2p people are "stealing" their music. That is simply not the case.

Like I said before, all that is happening economically, is the potential market being reduced. That happens everyday with stuff like bad record reviews etc. Its a market force that these people have to adapt to, or die out. That is a fundamental part of business, evolve or die, and I shed no tears over companies that refuse to do so, because of a new technology it fights, as opposed to work with.

[Paul Hanson]

Record labels ought to start bringing out their own ranges of hard drives and CD burners.

[Whaleboy]

If so (and I doubt thatd happen, itd take too long and require too much capital probably), then the non-doctored equipment will remain very popular.

Lets also consider the civil liberties issue too, do I want the RIAA etc given access, control and power over my computer?

[Az]

Actually, even that is not correct, Elijah, since I have some CDs that I bought after I had the MP3s, and vice versa.

Of course, now I have the CD burner, and ....

[Whaleboy]

Azazel: Indeed that is true! I would suspect many who download music to also buy cd's possibly because some do not have cd burners so computer speakers are lame, also because the quality of most mp3s tends to be around 96kb/s - 128kb/s, although ogg vorbis tends to be better quality for the same size, its nothing compared to cd quality.

[Sava]

Sava, well .. by being the citizen of the US, you have agreed to follow and obey its laws.. you have a deal. If you don't like some of the laws, then you break the deal, and thus should denounce citizenship .

Right?

Nah, laws are written by humans. And they are only as legitimate as the people writing and enforcing them. I choose to follow what laws I do simply because I don't want to deal with the headaches of litigation and/or prison, and because of my own morality. The reason I don't shoot people is not because I could go to jail, but because it's wrong. As I said, laws and the rule of law are subject to human fallibility. I have problems trusting and having faith in a system subject to such errors. The Justice System commits murder too, only we don't call it that.

It simply amazes me how many people can justify stealing

Wrong. There's nothing to justify. It isn't stealing.

Yes it is true, I am downloading stuff I would never buy the CD to- so they aren't losing any sales to me. But it's still the same as me taking the CD out of the store.

Wrong again. It's not the same. People downloading songs that they wouldn't have bought anyways aren't stealing anything. Participating in the free exchange of art and ideas isn't stealing. My feelings on "piracy" are quite simple. The free-exchange of ideas and binary bits on computers is fine. The second someone starts copying CD's and selling them, they are stealing. That's when the RIAA or recording industry loses money. NOT, when people leech.

[Az]

Elijah: CD quality is barely noticeable over Mp3. esp.

[Whaleboy]

It sure is over my Keg q15.2's, 100W each which cost £200 for the set .

Besides, I'm an audiophile!

[Whaleboy]

Sava: