Sex in the city...

[Al B. Sure!]

see this is the thing that i never get about apolyton... some people here got amazingly bizarre views to me. i have never heard anyone in real life argue for such things as legalization of prostitution. this is so odd to me and i got no idea how to respond to your arguements mainly because i got no idea where you're coming from.

this libertarian attitude of they ****ed themselves up, let them stay ****ed is inhumane to me, especially since most of these people who ****ed themselves up are not inherently stupid... they don't deserve to be in the f-ed up position that they're in. it's just without fathers and without no guidance and nothing... they just end up into dealers and sluts and what not. and what happens is that these same dealers and sluts will never take care of their own kids and the cycle just continues.

i demand that something step in and end this cycle

[David Floyd]

this libertarian attitude of they ****ed themselves up, let them stay ****ed is inhumane to me

This isn't what I'm saying. My argument is that they ****ed themselves up, but ****ing yourself up shouldn't be illegal. Just don't expect me to fix your **** up. These people have problems. One of those problems is that they expect me to fix their problem for them. But here's the problem - it's not my problem. Sounds cold, but I can't afford to fix other people's lives. I'll donate what I can to charitable organizations - in the absence of taxes, that is, when I can better afford it - but I refuse to be forced.

, especially since most of these people who ****ed themselves up are not inherently stupid... they don't deserve to be in the f-ed up position that they're in.

They don't deserve the consequences of their own actions? Come on.

it's just without fathers and without no guidance and nothing... they just end up into dealers and sluts and what not.

My parents were divorced, and I lived only with my mother. Three of my best friends grew up in single parent homes. None of us fit that stereotype. We do fit the stereotype of being intelligent, some of us extremely so. I wonder if there's a correlation? Hmmm, probably.

i demand that something step in and end this cycle

Then you do it. What are you doing? Talking big?

[Al B. Sure!]

David:

i do prefer that people uplift themselves and not rely on gov't programs so in that i agree with you but i can not stand by and let the gov't condone something as vile as prostitution. you might not have a problem with letting (i consider doing nothing to be an action) someone become a prostitute, saying that they are not harming anyone but themselves, but i dont even want them to harm themselves.

and as for you and your friends... thats great. there's hope for people but you know plenty don't see that hope...

and the great thing is that once you can stop the pre-marital sex and what not, all of a sudden all the problems like single mothers and no fathers around and all that will suddenly be gone and then maybe libertarian ideas like legalization of prostitution or a more liberalizing of how sex is treated may be applicable.

[David Floyd]

but i can not stand by and let the gov't condone something as vile as prostitution.

The government is condoning nothing - it is simply saying that as long as you don't hurt anyone, it won't even take notice.

you might not have a problem with letting (i consider doing nothing to be an action) someone become a prostitute, saying that they are not harming anyone but themselves, but i dont even want them to harm themselves.

So you also support measures to criminalize tobacco, alcohol, all drugs, caffeine, candy, sugar, tanning, piercings, tattoos, self-mutilation, bungee jumping, sky diving, gun ownership, and other activities/things that have the potential for harm?

there's hope for people but you know plenty don't see that hope...

These people have problems. One of those problems is that they expect me to fix their problem for them. But here's the problem - it's not my problem.

all of a sudden all the problems like single mothers and no fathers around and all that will suddenly be gone

So I guess we're making divorce illegal too?

[Al B. Sure!]

The government is condoning nothing - it is simply saying that as long as you don't hurt anyone, it won't even take notice.

that is the definition of condoning aint it? to stand by idly and let bad things happen?

So you also support measures to criminalize tobacco, alcohol, all drugs, caffeine, candy, sugar, tanning, piercings, tattoos, self-mutilation, bungee jumping, sky diving, gun ownership, and other activities/things that have the potential for harm?

a lot of those are inpractical to criminalize... prostitution is illegal now so i'll keep the status quo.

These people have problems. One of those problems is that they expect me to fix their problem for them. But here's the problem - it's not my problem.

no... they only expect you to try to end these bad conditions that are causing them to **** themselves over...

So I guess we're making divorce illegal too?

divorces can be justified sometimes... i just don't like this rampant divorce rate that is going on right now. that needs to stop if we want kids to grow up not holding guns or sucking dicks

[David Floyd]

that is the definition of condoning aint it? to stand by idly and let bad things happen?

No, I'd say that to condone something you approve of it.

My position is that I don't care, unless it starts to harm others.

a lot of those are inpractical to criminalize... prostitution is illegal now so i'll keep the status quo.

Sorry, but that's a silly answer. It's the same one I got at a high school leadership conference once when we had a pro Drug War speaker and I grilled him pretty hard. It was an unacceptable answer then, and I called him on it, and it's still an unacceptable answer.

If something is wrong, then it's wrong, regardless of how practical it is or isn't. So I'm looking for a straight answer - would you criminalize those things I listed or not?

no... they only expect you to try to end these bad conditions that are causing them to **** themselves over...

So, basically, they expect me to make their choices for them, or to set things up such that they can't make certain choices. Either way it is coercive, and I refuse to participate.

that needs to stop if we want kids to grow up not holding guns or sucking dicks

What the ****? I assume you are trying to say that homosexuality is a learned behavior - a choice. Obviously it isn't, as any homosexual will tell you. And even if it WERE a learned behavior, what's wrong with it and how's it hurting you?

[Al B. Sure!]

No, I'd say that to condone something you approve of it.

My position is that I don't care, unless it starts to harm others.

isnt your position equivalent to condoning but i've read what you said before about how doing nothing is not a negative action so i guess we got philosophical differences that wont resolve this.

If something is wrong, then it's wrong, regardless of how practical it is or isn't. So I'm looking for a straight answer - would you criminalize those things I listed or not?

some things are more wrong than others. bungee jumping for example has a relatively low risk of harming yourself or others, especially compared to smoking crack. because of the low risk of bungee jumping, the effort places in criminalizing bungee jumping would not be worth it.

So, basically, they expect me to make their choices for them, or to set things up such that they can't make certain choices. Either way it is coercive, and I refuse to participate.

no... you'd be giving them MORE choices... the child with a happy home got more choices than the one in the broken home

What the ****? I assume you are trying to say that homosexuality is a learned behavior - a choice. Obviously it isn't, as any homosexual will tell you. And even if it WERE a learned behavior, what's wrong with it and how's it hurting you?

what the hell are you talking about? when did i mention homosexuality?

[David Floyd]

doing nothing is not a negative action

So you think doing nothing is negative in every case?

because of the low risk of bungee jumping, the effort places in criminalizing bungee jumping would not be worth it.

I could make the same argument for marijuana, but then again, I could just use the "not worth it" argument, too - people are gonna do it no matter what, and marijuana isn't really that harmful, so what's the point.

no... you'd be giving them MORE choices... the child with a happy home got more choices than the one in the broken home

Not necessarily. And in any case, it isn't my place to force you to give people anything. I can donate as much money as I want - this is totally fine. But I can't and shouldn't force you to do so.

what the hell are you talking about? when did i mention homosexuality?

You used the phrase "holding a gun or sucking ****". But you know damn well what you meant, anyway.

[Al B. Sure!]

So you think doing nothing is negative in every case?

it is negative if had you done something, a positive result would have happened, but because you didnt do nothing, then a negative result happened so therefore, doing nothing was negative.

I could make the same argument for marijuana, but then again, I could just use the "not worth it" argument, too - people are gonna do it no matter what, and marijuana isn't really that harmful, so what's the point.

i contend that it is harmful. i dont care to see even more people high all the time than there are today...

Not necessarily. And in any case, it isn't my place to force you to give people anything. I can donate as much money as I want - this is totally fine. But I can't and shouldn't force you to do so.

again, i'm not a fan of gov't hand-outs... i am supportive of public education and what not instilling these ideas that i have been talking about such as not having pre-marital sex, not using drugs, etc.

You used the phrase "holding a gun or sucking ****". But you know damn well what you meant, anyway.

oh the sucking **** reference was to a whore. my bad...

(dont you know gay guys take it up the ass? )

[David Floyd]

it is negative if had you done something, a positive result would have happened, but because you didnt do nothing, then a negative result happened so therefore, doing nothing was negative.

So your argument is that if by acting you can have a "positive" impact, then you should always act, even without the permission of the person you are trying to help?

i contend that it is harmful.

Really?

i dont care to see even more people high all the time than there are today...

If people are high all the time they'll amount to nothing, and it'll be their fault. You probably can't help those people anyway.

But you really think there is something wrong with getting high at a party once in a while with friends?

again, i'm not a fan of gov't hand-outs... i am supportive of public education and what not instilling these ideas that i have been talking about such as not having pre-marital sex, not using drugs, etc.

So you're obviously in favor of handouts. If you were in favor of voluntary actions instead, you wouldn't push for all of these laws legislating morality

[DanS]

Prostitution, especially streetwalking, has ill effects on a neighborhood. It definitely decreases property values. In part because of this, the "it harms nobody but the prostitutes" is a bad argument.

The reason why prostitution is illegal in most parts of the US is because most women voters hate it. There is little that will get your average white liberal voting woman going like the prostitution issue.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
David Floyd:

yeah basically... i think pre-marital sex should become taboo like it used to be... and drilled into people's minds that it is wrong.

It was never taboo in this country, even if certain sections of this society frowned upon it. At the tmie of the Revolution, about 1/3rd of all children were being born out of wedlock. It's significantly lower today.

hell, i think most married people should stop having sex and make sure who they with is who they can raise kids with what with this ridiculous divorce rate and what not

What is wrong with you? Did a giant vagina come up and scare you when you were a kid or something?

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Damn. Don't you hate it when the comment you want to make is guaranteed to get you banned?

[Traianvs]

all the time, all the time gimp...

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by DanS
Prostitution, especially streetwalking, has ill effects on a neighborhood. It definitely decreases property values. In part because of this, the "it harms nobody but the prostitutes" is a bad argument.

There are all sorts of businesses we don't want in our neighborhoods. I wouldn't want a slaughterhouse next door, doesn't mean I think we should outlaw slaughterhouses.

You're right about the women keeping it illegal (both conservative and liberals, though it was men that outlawed it).

AS, not all prostitutes are streetwalkers. Like any service, they run the gammut from your petty street vendors to your top of the line Harvard graduates pulling down five figures (monetarily).

It's not prostitution that keeps these women in poverty, it's their pimps. Figure that these woman are making more than what I make, which is $30/hour. Even cheep whores are $50/half an hour. (Crack whores are a whole different story). These women make good money, but the pimp takes the vast majority, keeping these women in poverty and often hooked on drugs.