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I must admit, I'm still having trouble seeing the point of this thread. Just when someone seems to be making a good point, another person'll come along and reinforce the "You Eurocoms are all a big bunch of wusses and you ought to be grateful that us Americans are all hard-as-f*ck, and are more than happy to do your dirty work for you. Did I mention you're all a big bunch of wusses?"
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"Paul Hanson, you should give Gibraltar back to the Spanish" - Paiktis, dramatically over-estimating my influence in diplomatic circles.
Eyewerks - you know you want to visit. No really, you do. Go on, click me. -
If those Americans only knew what you have in mind for Exeter they wouldn´t say such things 
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I really ought to seek help about that.
"Paul Hanson, you should give Gibraltar back to the Spanish" - Paiktis, dramatically over-estimating my influence in diplomatic circles.
Eyewerks - you know you want to visit. No really, you do. Go on, click me.Comment
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I think we should send peacekeepers to South Central LA instead of IraqIn een hoerekotje aan den overkant emmekik mijn bloem verloren,
In een hoerekotje aan den overkant bennekik mijn bloemeke kwijtComment
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Did anyone in the US seriously think that after Bush pissed off the majority of voters in mainland Europe that the governments there would be rushing to spend money sorting out the mess he'd made in Iraq? I don't really believe they could have thought that, it would be very naive.
If only because if they helped clear up the mess this time he might think they'd keep doing it if he ever decides to do something like this again. I'm sure if Bush had had the diplomatic skills to form a proper international coallition, like his father did, there'd be more non-US peacekeepers now.
I think the Brits send around 25,000 troops to Iraq which is about half our total combat troops, that despite the majority of Brits disagreeing with unilateral action against Iraq.Jon Miller: MikeH speaks the truth
Jon Miller: MikeH is a shockingly revolting dolt and a masturbatory urine-reeking sideshow freak whose word is as valuable as an aging cow paddy.
We've got both kindsComment
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Re: Occupation of Iraq -- Where Is Europe?
Originally posted by DanS
Here is an interesting article about how much European countries are contributing to the occupation of Iraq. In short, not much, except Britain. The Netherlands is also contributing a good amount for its size.
On the one hand, I would agree that this is primarily just a function of how this war played out. It wasn't popular in Europe and leaders can't take the political hit to send troops. However, on the other hand, it shows that even those who supported us on this aren't willing to send many troops because of cost or capability.
The most interesting thing for me that this points out is the scarcity of political will to support anything militarily in Europe. There has been a lot of talk about how Europe focuses on peacekeeping and the US on warmaking, but this shows that Europe doesn't even have the will for peacekeeping. For instance, France had a tough time putting together 1,000 troops for the Congo.
The conclusion that I'm forced to come to is that Europe on the whole is demobilizing to the point where it will be impossible for it to act in any meaningful way outside of its borders, and that the US wish that Europe would spend something like 2.5% of its economy on the military is a fantasy. It may fly in the UK and France, but that's about it.
hi ,
it seems the polish infantry brigade is forgotten , .....
and so is the japanese navel detachment , ....
have a nice day- RES NON VERBA - DE OPRESSO LIBER - VERITAS ET LIBERTAS - O TOLMON NIKA - SINE PARI - VIGLIA PRETIUM LIBERTAS - SI VIS PACEM , PARA BELLUM -
- LEGIO PATRIA NOSTRA - one shot , one kill - freedom exists only in a book - everything you always wanted to know about special forces - everything you always wanted to know about Israel - what Dabur does in his free time , ... - in french - “Become an anti-Semitic teacher for 5 Euro only.”
WHY DOES ISRAEL NEED A SECURITY FENCE --- join in an exceptional demo game > join here forum is now open ! - the new civ Conquest screenshots > go see them UPDATED 07.11.2003 ISRAEL > crisis or challenge ?Comment
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The Polish are mentioned specifically more than once in the article.
And since it's about Europe's contribution, there's no need to mention Japan."Paul Hanson, you should give Gibraltar back to the Spanish" - Paiktis, dramatically over-estimating my influence in diplomatic circles.
Eyewerks - you know you want to visit. No really, you do. Go on, click me.Comment
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Did anyone in the US seriously think that after Bush pissed off the majority of voters in mainland Europe that the governments there would be rushing to spend money sorting out the mess he'd made in Iraq? I don't really believe they could have thought that, it would be very naive.
Too strong of language all around. First, we didn't make a mess in Iraq, it was already there from previous Hussein mismanagement and wars. Second, I don't think "rushing" is quite the right word of what they were looking for--rather, receptive to a solid, but modest, contribution to an occupation force. Thirdly, Europe wasn't even asked to play a leading role in this.
Instead, we don't even have a solid contribution from Europe. Overall, I agree that they were naive.
there'd be more non-US peacekeepers now
I don't think that is the case. France and Germany were the only ones left out. Even if France and Germany were in, it seems unlikely that the others would increase their participation markedly.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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What alliance? Bush has flushed the remains of that alliance down the toilet. You are miscalculating if you think that that "security umbrella" means "Europe will look favorably on American military-related or nation-building requests when they receive them". You have to offer something else for that.
The Alliance of Happy Freedom-Loving, Dictatorship-Hating Westerners.
The fact is that Europe (the Western part of it at least), places our military alliance at a very low value indeed. All of your statements would hold true even if Clinton had a 3rd term and Iraq hadn't come up again as an issue.
In my opinion, this is due to a dynamic of politics that places very little importance on the military in general.Last edited by DanS; June 23, 2003, 10:43.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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"The Alliance of Happy Freedom-Loving, Dictatorship-Hating Westerners."
When was there such an alliance? Was Alice a part of it?
"All of your statements would hold true even if Clinton had a 3rd term and Iraq didn't come up again."
Mostly yes. But there would still be a difference in whether the US starts an illegal war of aggression with no clue what to do next while pissing on other countries, or not doing that.“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)Comment
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Mostly yes. But there would still be a difference in whether the US starts an illegal war of aggression with no clue what to do next while pissing on other countries, or not doing that.
That's a topic for another thread, though.
I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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Since when did the US hate dictators? Most of them are/were US puppets, including Saddam till he went for more oil.Originally posted by DanS
What alliance? Bush has flushed the remains of that alliance down the toilet. You are miscalculating if you think that that "security umbrella" means "Europe will look favorably on American military-related or nation-building requests when they receive them". You have to offer something else for that.
The Alliance of Happy Freedom-Loving, Dictatorship-Hating Westerners.Some cry `Allah O Akbar` in the street. And some carry Allah in their heart.
"The CIA does nothing, says nothing, allows nothing, unless its own interests are served. They are the biggest assembly of liars and theives this country ever put under one roof and they are an abomination" Deputy COS (Intel) US Army 1981-84Comment
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Again, outside the purview of this thread. Please start another thread for your leftybabble. Thanks!I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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I guess we are suppose to believe that they can't afford that. Oh, but they HAVE to cut taxes for the rich. **** Bush.Originally posted by August Borms
I think we should send peacekeepers to South Central LA instead of IraqI drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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I think we should send peacekeepers to South Central LA instead of Iraq
Even if you wanted to, you wouldn't have the capability.
I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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