Rugby - Advantage Over!

[finbar]

Gee, Frozzy, three posts in a row. My title disappears across the pond.

[Frozzy]

Originally posted by finbar
Gee, Frozzy, three posts in a row. My title disappears across the pond.

We interrupt this spam-a-thon to bring you this Monty Python quotation:

Well, there's egg and bacon; egg, sausage, and bacon; egg and Spam; egg, bacon, and Spam; egg, bacon, sausage and Spam; Spam, bacon, sausage and Spam; Spam, egg, Spam, Spam, bacon, and Spam; Spam, Spam, Spam, egg, and Spam; Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam, baked beans, Spam, Spam, Spam, and Spam; or lobster thermidor aux crevettes with a Mornay sauce garnished with truffle paté, brandy, and a fried egg on top of Spam.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Frozzy


Henry Paul is a less spurious a player than you may think.

Henry Paul can well and truly get knotted as far as I'm concerned. He almost singlehandedly caused me to dismount from the Gloucester bandwagon!

I keep telling finbar that even dear Murray Mexted is more entertaining than commentary from a pub in Sydney. As with Super 12, it's in New Zealand, so you'll most probably get Kiwi coverage.

I love Murray. He comes out with some absolute pearlers. I think it was one of the S12 semi-finals on a particularly cold night that produced (and I'm probably paraphrasing, but not by much): "Oh look, you can see his nipples".

Yes... and with the amount young Jonny is eating it's no small wonder why he's constipated when he takes a kick.

Keep 'em coming! It's about time I had some help fighting the Abbott and Costello of the NH.

I was surprised to see him do so poorly at Loftus a fortnight back. He has played there quite a bit, but I'm sure it should come together when the Tri-Nations circus hits Auckland.

I wasn't surprised. I've seen him have some shockers. Pity, because it lets down his game.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Frozzy


I totally agree... but my point was that the All Blacks have alternative options if Carlos doesn't produce the goods in the World Cup.

I assume you mean keeping Carlos and bringing in someone else. That has to be either Daniel Carter or that fullback whose name I've forgotten again, sorry. Fair enough, providing Carter and/or the fullback deserve their spot and aren't squeezing out someone else simply to add a reliable goalkicker.

More to the point, I think Mitchell is trying to get Spencer to "heal" his pressure problem before October rolls around.

Do you think it's the pressure? As I said somewhere else, I don't know enough about kicking technique to know whether it's the problem. If it were, I'd assume it would have been fixed by now.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Frozzy


We interrupt this spam-a-thon to bring you this Monty Python quotation:

Well, there's egg and bacon; egg, sausage, and bacon; egg and Spam; egg, bacon, and Spam; egg, bacon, sausage and Spam; Spam, bacon, sausage and Spam; Spam, egg, Spam, Spam, bacon, and Spam; Spam, Spam, Spam, egg, and Spam; Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam, baked beans, Spam, Spam, Spam, and Spam; or lobster thermidor aux crevettes with a Mornay sauce garnished with truffle paté, brandy, and a fried egg on top of Spam.

Fetchez la vache!

[Frozzy]

Originally posted by finbar
Henry Paul can well and truly get knotted as far as I'm concerned. He almost singlehandedly caused me to dismount from the Gloucester bandwagon!

Don't worry finbar. I have already placed your application for English citizenship, and it should be processed before New Zealand win the WC final

I love Murray. He comes out with some absolute pearlers. I think it was one of the S12 semi-finals on a particularly cold night that produced (and I'm probably paraphrasing, but not by much): "Oh look, you can see his nipples".

It's actually surprising how many Kiwi males worry if their shirt is so tight you can see their nipples. Though with the AB backs having seemed to have signed a sponsorship deal with Kappa, it's no surprise Murray hasn't missed an AB game this year.

I wasn't surprised. I've seen him have some shockers. Pity, because it lets down his game.

On his day, particularly in Super 12, he is the best 1st 5 in the world. His creativity is second to none, and is a refreshing break for the Crusader style of kicking for territory. How many tries were scored by Howlett in the Super 12 from Carlos kick (I point in particular to his "banana" kick in the final.) I am totally in agreement as to his goal kicking in tests. Hopefully he will overcome it, and on the postive side he did look more comfortable in Sydney.

[Frozzy]

Originally posted by finbar
I assume you mean keeping Carlos and bringing in someone else. That has to be either Daniel Carter or that fullback whose name I've forgotten again, sorry. Fair enough, providing Carter and/or the fullback deserve their spot and aren't squeezing out someone else simply to add a reliable goalkicker.

I don't see Carter coming in to replace Aaron Mauger before the Tri-Nations is up. He is a sign of promise though. I think Ben Blair is the fullback you are reffering to? Blair will be in the AB squad for the World Cup, and I wouldn't be too surprised if he gets the nod as opposed to Muliaina

Do you think it's the pressure? As I said somewhere else, I don't know enough about kicking technique to know whether it's the problem. If it were, I'd assume it would have been fixed by now.

Like I said in my previous post, he did look more comfortable against the Brumbies. But why wouldn't he be scared? He's got young Carter screeching up behind him, and he has gotten a bad rap after his Loftus performance. It'll be a test of mettle if he can put it right before the World Cup.

Remember Mitchell wanting a 2nd 5 and a Full Back who can kick? My bet is that Mitchell forsaw this occuring, and is already trying to "help" Carlos.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Frozzy


Don't worry finbar. I have already placed your application for English citizenship, and it should be processed before New Zealand win the WC final

You would, too, you low long white cloud! Still, anything that gets me out of this rathole is fine by me.

On his day, particularly in Super 12, he is the best 1st 5 in the world. His creativity is second to none, and is a refreshing break for the Crusader style of kicking for territory. How many tries were scored by Howlett in the Super 12 from Carlos kick (I point in particular to his "banana" kick in the final.) I am totally in agreement as to his goal kicking in tests. Hopefully he will overcome it, and on the postive side he did look more comfortable in Sydney.

I think he's an absolute breath of fresh air. More power to him. I hope he can work it at Test level as well as he does at S12 level.

[Frozzy]

Originally posted by finbar
You would, too, you low long white cloud! Still, anything that gets me out of this rathole is fine by me.

I say Alexander's Horse is hot on your trail.

I think he's an absolute breath of fresh air. More power to him. I hope he can work it at Test level as well as he does at S12 level.

Carlos was the king piece of the Blues' success. It would be wonderful if he could replicae that magic for the World Cup.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Frozzy


I don't see Carter coming in to replace Aaron Mauger before the Tri-Nations is up. He is a sign of promise though.

Barring accidents, injuries, et al, I can't see Carter replacing Mauger at all. I think Mauger is one of the keys to your team. I don't think it's coincidence that they've really started firing since his return. Very skilled, very intelligent player, tremendous support for Carlos, very important link to the outside.

I think Ben Blair is the fullback you are reffering to? Blair will be in the AB squad for the World Cup, and I wouldn't be too surprised if he gets the nod as opposed to Muliaina

Yeah, that's him. Blair would really have to produce, because Muliaina is travelling pretty well at the moment.

Remember Mitchell wanting a 2nd 5 and a Full Back who can kick? My bet is that Mitchell forsaw this occuring, and is already trying to "help" Carlos.

Actually, I took Mitchell's kicking reference to mean field kicking. One thing C. Cullen never quite mastered was field kicking. It's hard when you're stupid, I gather.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Frozzy


I say Alexander's Horse is hot on your trail.

The only thing he's good for is fertilising my vegie patch.

Carlos was the king piece of the Blues' success. It would be wonderful if he could replicae that magic for the World Cup.

I'd settle for him turning it on against the Lantern-Jawed Log's mob. I've forgotten the various combinations and permutations, but I think the ABs can meet England in the final.

[Frozzy]

Originally posted by finbar


Barring accidents, injuries, et al, I can't see Carter replacing Mauger at all. I think Mauger is one of the keys to your team. I don't think it's coincidence that they've really started firing since his return. Very skilled, very intelligent player, tremendous support for Carlos, very important link to the outside.

Very true. He is a real workhorse, and given Carlos' dodgy shoulder, he needs someone reliable to get the ball off to.

Yeah, that's him. Blair would really have to produce, because Muliaina is travelling pretty well at the moment.

Blair was fundamental to Canturbury's NPC domination in 2001, and their placing in 2002. The only reason he didn't oust Leon MacDonald in Super 12 was because he broke his leg, so the Crusaders were forced to take a risk on Leon, who is one concussion from ending his career

Actually, I took Mitchell's kicking reference to mean field kicking. One thing C. Cullen never quite mastered was field kicking.

Muliaina isn't the hottest kicker of the ball, but he can deliver a fair punt. Blair also can punt it, and probably better than Mils. I want Blair to play in the black jersey in the coming weeks, and if he can re-establish his form (though he was quite compelling against Hawkes' Bay a few weeks back), I'm conviced the full-back spot will be red.

[Frozzy]

Originally posted by finbar


The only thing he's good for is fertilising my vegie patch.

I thought that was what your spam was for?

I'd settle for him turning it on against the Lantern-Jawed Log's mob. I've forgotten the various combinations and permutations, but I think the ABs can meet England in the final.

It's most likely Australia - England, and France - NZ in the semi-finals.

As NZ have proven, they can blitz anyone if their back line is loaded by the enemy. Put simply, France are "All beef and no legs". I don't rate their back line.

[Havak]

Well I did like the reference to Abbot and Costello – it’s a very effective Kiwi double act on my case here – keep it up guys.

Can I just point out that England actually drew the first test with South Africa – SA ending up nine wickets away from the win and with England also needing less than two hundred runs with those wickets to win it themselves.

100/1 in a two horse race.

Worth a flutter. All it needs is for Carlos to have a shocker and for Wendell to make one of his stand up-flap arm tackles to take young Rokocoko out (not that I condone that!).

NSW has a long history of letting talent slip through its fingers.

It’s the good luck attitude that puzzles me. There’s an infamous Englishman who nicked off the play to Wales when he realised he couldn’t get a look in here. Ruprt Moon. Hell of a nice lad. Yet he has always been rightly heckled by the crowds on his return to English grounds as a traitor. Better not to be an international than to play for a country that is not your own to our minds. Clearly down there it’s just a matter of who offers you the shirt first. I’ll never understand it.

I mean, I have doubts about Eddie's coaching abilities at the top level, but it's too late now

And here is the key point – it’s time for Aussies to get behind the flag in their traditional style. Witch hunting before the RWC is insanely self destructive let alone a ‘bit out of hand’?

The link you gave was very interesting, even allowing for the authors history with A. Jones. So the solution to all Aussie problems is to put A Jones in charge. Your PM will be pleased.

Well bother. This would have to be the one time you called me on it too.

Life always throws the curve ball when you least expect it.

I heard that and cringed.

It drive me nuts every time I hear it.

Far be it from you to condemn our donning of the tinted spectacles when you too may wish to make such a fashion statement again someday?

Heck - you got me there.

I'm not so sure about the time frame but it must've come from a prop anyway.

You mean it was so razor sharp it must have come from the diamond cutters at the coalface?

Okay, I don't know how to respond to it but I'll be sure to trot it out one of these days and then you'll be sorry.

Nicely said – good to see everything being taken in good humour.

Yes he's become a pretty capable player and yes he probably would have done the same in Fiji but probably not to the same extent, IMHO anyway.

Interesting point. Nature versus nurture. You probably have a very solid point. Surely though it’s a separate argument from the one as to whether Fijians are eligible to be ABs in the first place though?

Henry Paul is a less spurious a player than you may think

In what sense Frozzy? I have seen him thoroughly embarassed at club level by very workman like opponents. Glaws have tried him at centre, fly half and (most laughably to all except Finbar) fullback and he just does not seem to ‘get’ the XV man game.

His last full England cap came in our last loss – in Paris in March 2002 – and he looked like a man totally out his depth in the cauldron of Stade de France. Having said that he shines at sevens – and I have no problem with him choosing to be English – that just shows good sense on his part - I just also happen to think the IRB should have maybe intervened given he is, well for want of another expression, actually a Kiwi!!

Yes... and with the amount young Jonny is eating it's no small wonder why he's constipated when he takes a kick.

It is rather an unusual posture he adopts I’ll agree.

He has played there quite a bit, but I'm sure it should come together when the Tri-Nations circus hits Auckland.

What I’ve been trying to hint at though is that you can’t be sure? That is what holds Carlos back and denies him the ‘best fly half in the world’ accolade. He can be electric. He can also be dire. What he lacks is consistency and there both Larkham and Wilkinson leave him standing. Wilko had his worst game in years when we played the ABs in June – but he wasn’t ‘awful’ by any means. There’s no doubt Carlos could become the man – but he isn’t there yet.

I think Mitchell is trying to get Spencer to "heal" his pressure problem before October rolls around.

Hmm. You play us in awful weather. Our forwards misfire and your young bucks put them under some pressure. Carlos has a pack slightly on and a backline totally on the front foot. He messes up his kicking. You are destroying the Boks – totally in charge – he messes up his kicking. You are humiliating the Wallabies – he messes up his kicking.

There is a pattern there – can you see it?

The first pressure game he will face now will be the QF of the world cup – and there he meets either us or the Boks (lets face it he meets the Boks). He needs to cure his kicking problem in the lower pressure games before that doesn’t he?

*singsong voice* British! Oh, so British!

There are few jobs in the world worse than England cricket captain. What they need is a Jonno – see how well Aussie sledging works then.

I think he's an absolute breath of fresh air. More power to him. I hope he can work it at Test level as well as he does at S12 level.

Ah Finbar – Carlos is a damn good player but would you really pick him above Larkham or Wilkinson right now?
What you are not realising here is that Carlos let Tigers down at the eleventh hour three seasons ago when the diea he could be an AB again looked hugely remote – the man could be the best player ever and I’d never forgive him for that.

I'd settle for him turning it on against the Lantern-Jawed Log's mob. I've forgotten the various combinations and permutations, but I think the ABs can meet England in the final.

Okay let me be quite serious for just a moment – it is really looking like we are the only ones who can derail the AB bandwagon now.

Okay enough of serious already! There will be some serious differences should we meet again. It’s very unlikely Wilko could be so quiet again – or that Ben Kays dip in form will run to then. Phil Vickery and Trevor Woodman should both be fit giving us both huge power in the scrum and very mobile props in the loose (more so than the Rowntree-Leonard combo seen in NZ anyway) and our young blindside Moody will be back and ploughing the road. Plus we have Jonno fit and in the best form of his life – and that more than any other factor convinces me we can break Kiwi hearts.

I don’t know why you lads doubt our quality to be honest – it’s four years since the ABs beat us and over three since the ‘Magnificent World Cup winning Wallabies’ did so.

And having goaded almost everyone I was going to disappear – then I spotted this.

Put simply, France are "All beef and no legs". I don't rate their back line.

Tamerlin will love this as the touring side contained many a young Toulouse back.

You didn’t see all of their experienced back line –and you only saw their second line pack as well. Don’t dismiss them too quickly. Taine did and look what happened to him.

I think the reality is there is no back line in world rugby like the ABs – I’m certainly not claiming ours comes too close – but that isn’t where teams will aim to beat you. Franxce and England will certainly target your pack – its going to be great fun all round later in the year.

[Frozzy]

Originally posted by Havak
In what sense Frozzy?

I meant playing for England. My wording wasn't entirely clear.

What I’ve been trying to hint at though is that you can’t be sure? That is what holds Carlos back and denies him the ‘best fly half in the world’ accolade. He can be electric. He can also be dire. What he lacks is consistency and there both Larkham and Wilkinson leave him standing. Wilko had his worst game in years when we played the ABs in June – but he wasn’t ‘awful’ by any means. There’s no doubt Carlos could become the man – but he isn’t there yet.

He is a consistent player. He is not a consistent kicker. He can get any team rolling, but his kicking game is suffering.

Hmm. You play us in awful weather. Our forwards misfire and your young bucks put them under some pressure. Carlos has a pack slightly on and a backline totally on the front foot. He messes up his kicking. You are destroying the Boks – totally in charge – he messes up his kicking. You are humiliating the Wallabies – he messes up his kicking.

I do not dispute that Carlos Spencer couldn't kick laser-guided missile over the sticks if his life depended on it. What I do dispute is the fact that Carlos was one of the best kickers in Super 12.

It's a pressure thing.

The first pressure game he will face now will be the QF of the world cup – and there he meets either us or the Boks (lets face it he meets the Boks). He needs to cure his kicking problem in the lower pressure games before that doesn’t he?

Barring any drunken South Africans beating the snot out of referees, or similar mishaps, New Zealand won't meet England until the final

There are few jobs in the world worse than England cricket captain. What they need is a Jonno – see how well Aussie sledging works then.

I still say the trick is to stack beer cans in the stands during the games. Hopefully England will be able to bowl at nothing whilst Adam and Matty Hayden wet their whistles over a Foster's.

and that more than any other factor convinces me we can break Kiwi hearts.

Admit it. Our England bashing gives you something to focus your energy on.

I don’t know why you lads doubt our quality to be honest – it’s four years since the ABs beat us and over three since the ‘Magnificent World Cup winning Wallabies’ did so.

Pre-tournament means nothing. Each side was chopping and changing their starting lines in conditions which would be more suitable in Scotland.

I think the reality is there is no back line in world rugby like the ABs – I’m certainly not claiming ours comes too close – but that isn’t where teams will aim to beat you. Franxce and England will certainly target your pack – its going to be great fun all round later in the year.

And our backline to yours. I'll admit the All Black pack was a bit slow to get on top of Aussies on Saturday, but the fact we can put 50 on Australia with a below-par performance says a lot.