Babylon and on - the new capitalism/communism thread

[Velociryx]

Figured now that the other one had reached the magic 500 number, we might want a new one to continue our pointless arguing back and forth that's not gonna convince either side....

-=Vel=-

[MichaeltheGreat]

ARRRGGGGHHHH!

[Velociryx]

....and who knows, maybe THIS time our Comrades in arms can put their heads together and decide on a cohesive argument.

We get Kiddero spouting stuff about how everything has to always be exactly equal, drawing a deep breath and then saying how pay should be based on ability and effort, just not as widely spaced as it is now (which is a paradox, in case you were fishing for the word), we get Che....God love him, quoting from tired, hundred year old theory like it's this morning's news, when the truth is that it's about as out of touch with a modern economy as thinking the moon is made of cheese, and we get GePap asking questions like: "Why is theivery bad?"

Stay tuned....I'm sure the next round will be equally thrilling. Perhaps we'll even be treated to some explanation from the reds about how what they're touting is any different from the dismal failures we've seen historically. Even better, perhaps they'll be able to put a "kinder, gentler" spin on the whole Gulag thing....THAT would really be something!



-=Vel=-

[Sava]

I like Democracy

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
ARRRGGGGHHHH!

Case closed. MtG wins.

[JohnT]

Glutton for punishment are we?

[Velociryx]

Awwww, c'mon DD....'poly OT wouldn't be the same without at least one Capitalism/Communist thread running....

-=Vel=-

EDIT to John: Yessir....reporting for duty with the Capitalism Brigade!

[alva]

God love him, quoting from tired, hundred year old theory like it's this morning's news

There are theories older then a 100 years that we thought were cr*p, yet so seem to be true/real.
And many more that still stand.
-
I wouldn't say communism was the greatest thing ever, by far, but,
Capitalism has had a long time to evolve, while communism was sort of thrown upon people and didn't have time to balance off (if possible).
To put it in gaming terms;
Capitalism : old game where most things have been fine-tuned ( yeah right )
Communism : alfa realease where some units where way too strong and overpowering.

[Velociryx]

To get the ball rolling good, here's a couple of questions for the communist crowd:

1) What's up with the whole "group before individual" thing? Sounds like it's a wierd cross between an ant farm and the borg collective to me. Are you guys aware that societies exist to serve those in them, and not the other way around? Why should we switch that, and make individuals exist to serve the state (or "common good" or "whole group" which are some other phrasings I've heard from your camp). Why is that superior to letting folks be....folks?

2) How will you prevent a dictatorial a$$ from siezing power when the "glorious revolution" comes. Isn't that what's happened in every other communist experiment that's been tried. So, if you're going to try it again, what will you do differently to ensure that it doesn't happen? Or, do you not really care that it'll happen?

3) Are the party bosses in the new communist regieme gonna have all the perks they had in the old one? If so, isn't that just a shade umm....contradictory. Workin' man's party and all that?

I'm genuinely curious, although I don't see you guys changing my mind on it, I do love the debate!

-=Vel=-

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Velociryx
we get Che....God love him, quoting from tired, hundred year old theory like it's this morning's news

So how old is the foundation of capitalism?

Originally posted by Velociryx
Stay tuned....I'm sure the next round will be equally thrilling. Perhaps we'll even be treated to some explanation from the reds about how what they're touting is any different from the dismal failures we've seen historically.

Hasty generalisation. How many instances of capitalism were there and how many were failures?

Originally posted by Velociryx
Even better, perhaps they'll be able to put a "kinder, gentler" spin on the whole Gulag thing....THAT would really be something!

Red herring.

Communism isn't a political system.

[Velociryx]

Alva, what you say is true, I agree. We to this day study philosophers whose works are thousands of years old.

The thing is though, economic theories have to be a good deal more nimble than philophisies on the nature of man. We haven't really changed all that much in a thousand years. We eat better and build fancier stuff, but if you strip all that away, we're not a whole lot different than we were. Sure, our luxuries have given us more time for contemplation, and there are some new things to think about (human rights being a relatively new concept), but the economy has totally transformed itself in the past hundred years. We have not.

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

So....no real responses from UR then? just the usual cut/paste one liner job? Figured as much....

-=Vel=-

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Communism isn't a political system.

ummm... yes it is... duh

SOCIALISM is the thing that isn't a political system. It is an economic system.

COMMUNISM (by definition) is a political system that integrates the socialist economic system into an authoritation political system.

Anarcho-socialism is the leftist version of Libertarianism (it is anti-authoritarian, for lack of a better word)

[Sava]

you are wrong about Communism skywalker... read Marx to find out what Communism is

[Velociryx]

Personally I think it'd be refreshing for the reds to outline a little more clearly what it is they believe and what they hope to accomplish when their "revolution" comes. In our last episode, everyone who claimed to be "red" seemed to have a different set of beliefs, while those arguing in favor of capitalism were all pretty well on the same page.

It's tough to make a convincing argument when all your soldiers are marching to a different beat, no?

-=Vel=-