Why Capitalists are Capitalists...

[Velociryx]

Yes, let's look at the Japanese. Their economy has been in the toilet for longer than I can remember, while the US economy has blazed to new heights.

Society owes it's existence to the individual, not the other way around.

Perhaps in time you will come to see that, and in the meantime, don't be shocked when you get a strong negative reaction when trying to impose your Borg-like collective on me.

-=Vel=-

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
What do you do?

I tried teaching, but I realized that it was ruining my life so I'm going back to school. I"m set to start on a business degree, probably Accounting or Finance. I already have a degree in Economics.

[Velociryx]

Thank you, ajbera... And you're quite right...if there's an immediate need, I have (frequently), shared breakfast at the local waffle house. That fixes the immediate need (and didn't take half my paycheck, which Kid seems to think I should fork over....you know, so everything's "even."), and then, having dealt with the immediate problem, the next step is to help this person see that he does not fall into such desperate straits again.

How? NOT by giving him half of my next paycheck, but by finding something he enjoys or has an interest in, and helping him get a job so he can WORK for his own money.

-=Vel=-

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Kidicious
There aren't enough jobs for everyone right now, but that's only because of capitalism.

Overpopulation in developing nations has nothing to do with it, of course.

So people will be given an income who don't qualifiy for work.

Nice, let's create a permanent underclass of dependency rather than focus on ways of growing the economy so those people can be productive and earn livings.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Group effort has proven the more efficient way. Individualism is a failure. Look at the Japanese. Everyone is following their example now. You don't want to argue with progress do you?

And what would you know about Japanese economics, politics, finance, or work practices?

[Velociryx]

kid, people are rational, yes?

That has been one of the centerpieces of your entire argument, right?

Question for you.....what is the rational choice:

1) Go out and work hard for your money

or

2) Stay home, party all night, play computer games, and post on 'poly and make the same (or nearly so) money as the person who goes out and works hard all day.

What would the rational person do? (I know what I'd do if presented with those two choices!)

-=Vel=-

[DAVOUT]

Now it is clear that the goulag is not enough for controlling guys like Vel. They will never shut up.

All individualists-greedy-selfish-capitalists must be PHYSICALLY ELIMINATED for the communist revolution to succeed.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Are they out of that recession yet?

It's far beyond "recession."

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
Overpopulation in developing nations has nothing to do with it, of course.

Ok, tell me why it should.

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
Nice, let's create a permanent underclass of dependency rather than focus on ways of growing the economy so those people can be productive and earn livings.

Dependency is the way of the current system. The rich depend on the working people. In the future it will only be different in that the working people will make a little more money that the people who don't work. The only other solution would be to shorten the work week, but I don't think that would be as efficient.

[Velociryx]

And they are certainly welcome to come try, Master Dave!

-=Vel=-

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
And what would you know about Japanese economics, politics, finance, or work practices?

Nothing but when has that stopped him before.

It's far beyond "recession."

I had not realized it had gotten that bad.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Yes, let's look at the Japanese. Their economy has been in the toilet for longer than I can remember, while the US economy has blazed to new heights.

Society owes it's existence to the individual, not the other way around.

Perhaps in time you will come to see that, and in the meantime, don't be shocked when you get a strong negative reaction when trying to impose your Borg-like collective on me.

-=Vel=-

Their recession has nothing to do with their efficiency. They have a lot of trouble in their banking sector.

[Velociryx]

How, exactly, do the rich "depend" on the poor? I'm very curious to hear this!

-=Vel=-

[Ned]

I haven't read this entire thread, but I must applaud you Vel for putting up a very fine argument in favor of capitalism and against socialism. The argument always boils down to values. The socialist aims for equality of outcomes regardless of effort or talent. The capitalist aims for outcomes porportional to effort and talent. If one considers this for only a short time, it seems clear which system is the moral system.

One caveat: Even the more diehard capitalists will agree that there needs to be a social safety net.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Agathon
Because the fact that you bargained for it in a free market system is not identical with, nor does it obviously entail a right to keep it.

Don't confuse economic results with moral entitlements.

So who defines that the state has the right to arbitrarily seize property of it's subjects, and why should anyone not forcibly overthrow such a state?