Why Capitalists are Capitalists...

[Az]

I think that 30k-40k would be good. Both groups would be pretty satisfied. I think that we could produce enough to cover it too.

Just so that you know, I have no idea why people who stay at home should be paid. Invest in child chreches and communitary schools instead.

[Velociryx]

so...let me get this right....I can stay home and make 30k, or bust my a$$ for 10k more...

No contest!

-=Vel=-

[GePap]

Originally posted by Velociryx
GePap: Read this thread. One of the Comrades arguing here has, in fact, used the caricatures you poke fun at, touting them as legitimate arguments, so if you're amused by them, that's good, but neither John or I can take credit. That honor goes to the Comrades arguing here.

And that comrade is not ME. I don;t goive a **** what arguembnts you are having with other people on this thread, If you don;t address my points, then I must assume you have no valid answers for them.

As to the crime question: You should already know the answer to that.

Point the answer to me.

Economic activity (work) is not a crime. We, as individuals have determined however, that taking from another societal individual IS a crime. The two don't even belong in the same category.

And the question is why not. Stealing is an economic activity, an outlawed one. The question I ask is why it is outlawed, which is the question you are magnificanty failing to answer.

I assumed you were wiser than that, and apologize for making the assumption...

-=Vel=-

I am wise enough to see someone unable or unwilling to answer questions asked of him, or openyl state you refuse to answer.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by JohnT


Uhm, excuse me?

War is war... or are you going to redefine the term as well?

After the war against the pigdogs is over there will be peace.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
My point is that you are utterly ignorant and unqualified to comment on Japanese "efficiency" or reasons for their more than decade long economic and social decline, so maybe you shouldn't embarass yourself more than usual.

Having tried chicken teriyaki, or even sushi doesn't really qualify you to comment.

Almost across the board, Japanese "efficiency" is an utter myth, and an illusion created by a fun and games bubble that would embarass even Andy Fastow.

Weak. Make an argument. The Japanese are very productive. Productivity is not the problem there.

[JohnT]

Originally posted by Kidicious


Get out of your fantasy world. People steal. So your theory that buying things creates wealth is blown out of the water.

Now you are giving replies to positions not stated. This is possibly the most non sequitorial thing said yet in this thread.

Perhaps MtG can award you with a title: "Apolytons non sequitor king" or something.

But... it doesn't have the panache when I labelled EVC "Apolyton's Daffy Duck." Perhaps MtG can think of a proper one.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
so...let me get this right....I can stay home and make 30k, or bust my a$$ for 10k more...

No contest!

-=Vel=-

You're lazy

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by GePap
And does a Capitalist wave a magic wand and building materials come out of nowhere? Oh yes, and the Building just magically also appear 'poof', out of thin air.
And you will concede them the land? Is the Capitalist on it? If not, how can you tell its his? dd he also make a chain link fence magically appear out of nowhere? or maybe he has magically created robots guarding it?

You should really catch up with the flow of the thread and the arguments made.

Nobody on the capitalist side of the fence in this argument has claimed that labor isn't an essential component of the economy. The modern capitalist realizes there is an interdependence of all contributors to the capital enterprise. That's one of the reasons why laissez faire has gone out of style in more advanced economies and more lucrative industries.

It's the Communist loons who claim that financial and intellectual capital, intrinsic value of raw material resources, and organizational contributions are either non-existent or meaningless. "The rich" are nothing but parasitic scum, only "the workers" actually do anything, and what they do, what they do it with, where they do it, etc., all magically appear, having nothing at all to do with "the rich" scum.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Azazel

I think that 30k-40k would be good. Both groups would be pretty satisfied. I think that we could produce enough to cover it too.

Just so that you know, I have no idea why people who stay at home should be paid. Invest in child chreches and communitary schools instead.

Automation will even eliminate jobs in those industries eventually.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Kidicious


Weak. Make an argument. The Japanese are very productive. Productivity is not the problem there.

Ahhhh soooooo, now effiency = productive. Double plus good, grasshopper.

BTW, that "efficiency" which now equals "productivity" occured with: massive overemployment in meaningless jobs, (if you'd been there in the 80's, you'd know) leading to overpriced products and services in all domestic markets, psychologically and socially coerced mass overtime, illiquidity in internal markets, great dependence on reverse engineering of foreign technologies (sometimes successful, sometimes not, but so much for group-speak), and a corrupt political system that overlooked or discouraged every form of accountability and transparency, as long as the short-term trade surpluses looked good. Meanwhile, during the boom times, thousands of dispossesed lived in the streets, train stations or in garbage dumps, the social health care system has imploded on itself with rising costs, and the "productivity" numbers were cooked.

The banking collapse didn't happen out of thin air - it happened out of a corrupt one party government, industrial enterprise and industrial enterprise owned bank system with no antitrust regulation, and no transparency to shareholders, collaborating to cook the books across the board.

Nobody knows what real Japanese "efficiency" or productivity is - you can't trust the books, and there's more shifting of inefficiensies and losses off balance sheet than anyone will ever know. Nobody wants to look either, because the Japanese culturally would rather have a pleasant lie than an unpleasant truth, and if the truth got out, the Nikkei would tank again, and you'd be full on into a spiraling deflationary cycle - which is damned close to happening anyway.

[Az]

God I hope not. Teachers must always stay human. They can use tech aids, though.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
Ahhhh soooooo, now effiency = productive. Double plus good, grasshopper.

BTW, that "efficiency" which now equals "productivity" occured with: massive overemployment in meaningless jobs, (if you'd been there in the 80's, you'd know) leading to overpriced products and services in all domestic markets, psychologically and socially coerced mass overtime, illiquidity in internal markets, great dependence on reverse engineering of foreign technologies (sometimes successful, sometimes not, but so much for group-speak), and a corrupt political system that overlooked or discouraged every form of accountability and transparency, as long as the short-term trade surpluses looked good. Meanwhile, during the boom times, thousands of dispossesed lived in the streets, train stations or in garbage dumps, the social health care system has imploded on itself with rising costs, and the "productivity" numbers were cooked.

The banking collapse didn't happen out of thin air - it happened out of a corrupt one party government, industrial enterprise and industrial enterprise owned bank system with no antitrust regulation, and no transparency to shareholders, collaborating to cook the books across the board.

Nobody knows what real Japanese "efficiency" or productivity is - you can't trust the books, and there's more shifting of inefficiensies and losses off balance sheet than anyone will ever know. Nobody wants to look either, because the Japanese culturally would rather have a pleasant lie than an unpleasant truth, and if the truth got out, the Nikkei would tank again, and you'd be full on into a spiraling deflationary cycle - which is damned close to happening anyway.

What does any of this have to do with the difference in the way the Japanese manufacture say cars and the old US way of manufacturing. The old US way is horribly inefficient. It's a dinosaur now. Anyone using it will surely go out of business in this modern era.

[JohnT]

And what do outmoded 1970's standards of American production techniques have to do with a conversation taking place in 2003 dealing with issues of today?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Azazel
God I hope not. Teachers must always stay human. They can use tech aids, though.

Students can work together to learn probably better than they would learn from a teacher especially with the new technology. That doesn't mean that teaching is not value. It means that it's not productive in the same sense as it used to be. So if a job isn't necessary should we pay to have it performed?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by JohnT
And what do outmoded 1970's standards of American production techniques have to do with a conversation taking place in 2003 dealing with issues of today?

I think we're talking about productivity. The new production methods require multiple skilled very productive team members. Every job created with this new method eliminates more jobs.