realistic spaceship combat

[The diplomat]

Originally posted by Cruddy


A stealth vehicle invisible to IR sensors IN SPACE????

That means the whole ship has to be about absolute zero - very chilly for the crew!

I honestly don't see how you could have stealth in IR frequencies. Radio yes, light yes, but heat? That's the product of just about every physical process.

Anyone got any bright ideas on this?

A ship in orbit would probably be able to use the heat signature of the planet to hide its own signature.

Also, the sun has a huge heat signature in space. Ships could try to attack "with the sun behind them" so that from the enemy's perspective, their heat signature would get lost in the sun's.

If you could shift the IR wavelength to a different wavelength, you could essentially convert the IR into a different form of EM radiation. Your IR signature would be reduced, but your signature in a different wavelength would be increased. Of course, the enemy would not necessarily know what wavelength to search, so it would have to search all wavelengths, to find where your signature is maximum.

[Ellestar]

Elite... 2nd best game in my list. (First is Star Control 2).

[chequita guevara]

Why not convert heat to some other form of power, like electricity?

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Cruddy
A stealth vehicle invisible to IR sensors IN SPACE????

That means the whole ship has to be about absolute zero - very chilly for the crew!

It's more like 4.3K, exactly the same temperature as the background radiation.

It means the ship has to have perfect insulation, that it doesn't travel fast enough to generate heat, and that it isn't anywhere close to a star to radiate off absorbed heat.

[Cruddy]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Why not convert heat to some other form of power, like electricity?

All known conversion processes involve losses. They are not 100% efficient, which still leaves a heat trail.

If we could do it effectively, we'd have virtually free energy. Just put the geerators in the Sahara/Mojave wherever deserts and watch the watts pump out.

Urban, are you agreeing or disagreeing? It's kind of hard to tell - I think you are saying it's technically possible with the right sort of technology.

ANYTHING'S POSSIBLE with the right sort of technology.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Why not convert heat to some other form of power, like electricity?

There are all sorts of reasons. For example, the ship may be giving off IR radiation due to proximity to a star. To convert that into another form of energy, you need to "suck" it from the hull, which is probably more costly than staying away from said star to begin with.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Cruddy
Urban, are you agreeing or disagreeing? It's kind of hard to tell - I think you are saying it's technically possible with the right sort of technology.

All I was saying was the ship doesn't have to be 0K inside In fact, a ship at 0K on the outer hull will show up darker than the background on IR

[The Mad Monk]

I remember a short story in Dragon magazine, back in the eighties, that involved a space battle. The ship in question was a heavily armored sphere (10s of meters of iron and concrete, with internal water buffers, IIRC), and a relatively small crew. Armament consisted of kiloton-range nukes using fusion rockets, which were 'launched' by inertia -- the ship was slowly spinning, and it just a matter of opening the lauch door and relasing a clamp. After drifting out a klick or two, the missle would fire up its engine and be on its way. The only other weapons were chemical-propeled nukes used to knock out incoming missles at moderate ranges, heavy chainguns used phalenx-style to intercept at pitifully short ranges. The nukes didn't actully have to hit to kill or cripple a ship -- within a few klicks would be good enough.


Ranges were at around 50,000 km or so, the ships used passive detection (very submerine-like), and exchanges (the story only had the one) took forty minutes for the fusion rockets to cross paths.

It struck me as being the most likely scenario for interplanetary space combat I have ever read.

[Cruddy]

That's not pleasant reading. The winners get to die more slowly than the losers. Some victory.

I agree though, with the exception of the fusion powered rocket's it's all doable - with the problem that you kinetic energy Phalanx cannons are going to throw the spin and the careful aiming system out the window.

Oh yeah, how does a chemically powered rocket intercept an incoming fusion powered nuke? I don't get that bit.

And why not use lasers or PAs on the close in defense? Maybe bulk and power would be a factor here - although a sphere with a hull 10s of metres thick would have a fair bit of internal volume. Any idea what diameter we are talking here?

I used to collect Dragon but I stopped ages ago. It was not economically viable from my UK POV.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by The Mad Monk
Ranges were at around 50,000 km or so, the ships used passive detection (very submerine-like), and exchanges (the story only had the one) took forty minutes for the fusion rockets to cross paths.

The question is, how do they target? Torpedoes can be wire guided, but that is absolutely out of the question here. If only passive guidance is used, it's not likely that they would come close to anything in space.

Also, nukes are a lot less effective in space, as there's no medium to transmit the shockwaves.

[The Mad Monk]

As I recall, the ship itself was in the neighborhood of 120-150 meters in diamter, with maybe a 20 meter sphere dead-center that housed the crew -- ridiculously overarmored for anything less than a nuke exchange, and slow as hell.

The counternukes were chemical becuase that was cheaper, lighter, and only had to go thirty or so klicks in ten minutes to make the intercepts.

As for energy weapons -- the ship depended on stealth and armor, in that order, there wouldn't be room for the power plant required. As it was, it took them weeks to go anywhere.

I think they were stationed near the asteroid belt, as a picket.

[The Mad Monk]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


The question is, how do they target? Torpedoes can be wire guided, but that is absolutely out of the question here. If only passive guidance is used, it's not likely that they would come close to anything in space.

Also, nukes are a lot less effective in space, as there's no medium to transmit the shockwaves.

I believe the warheads in this case were designed for soft x-ray kill effects.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by The Mad Monk
I believe the warheads in this case were designed for soft x-ray kill effects.

Then they can be stopped by a thin sheet of lead lining.

[The Mad Monk]

I'll take your word on it.

[Urban Ranger]