Bush Administration's latest excuse...

[Whaleboy]

"Elijah, this is getting very frustrating for me. You don't consider any of the points I have made"

Hehe true. Agree to disagree on this one?

"Try to keep the insults to a minimum"

Gotta concur with Fez. No insults, no ad hominems, generally make debates a far better experience for all.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by elijah
"Elijah, this is getting very frustrating for me. You don't consider any of the points I have made"

Hehe true. Agree to disagree on this one?

Yes and I concede I stated things more than once myself.

Very well.

"Try to keep the insults to a minimum"

Gotta concur with Fez. No insults, no ad hominems, generally make debates a far better experience for all.

I am taking orders from MtG to remove the insults from my debates. For the better.

[Whaleboy]

Merciless: All I can say is time will tell which one of us is correct. We can debate and disagree till we're blue in the fingers, but the only person who knows is the big guy upstairs, and I think hes having a chuckle!

Nonetheless, I'll quit this thread, as Fez said, said my piece, lets agree to disagree... bigger and better things to worry about.

[HershOstropoler]

Originally posted by Fez


Try to keep the insults to a minimum...

That's exactly what I'm doing.

[Lord Merciless]

Originally posted by elijah
Merciless: All I can say is time will tell which one of us is correct. We can debate and disagree till we're blue in the fingers, but the only person who knows is the big guy upstairs, and I think hes having a chuckle!

Nonetheless, I'll quit this thread, as Fez said, said my piece, lets agree to disagree... bigger and better things to worry about.

So true. I will check with you in a year on this matter.

[ThePlagueRat]

Originally posted by realpolitic
Even some of the most obnioxious Americans conservatives, like Bob Novak, were against it, some magazines called them "unpatriotic". There was talk of embargoing countries that are normally allies, because they disagrreed with us.

"If you don't agree with us and do as we say, you are unpatriotic." - It's the typical rhetorics of a warmonger. Good thing you mentioned it, 'cause I don't want anyone to feel like a traitor for disagreeing with their government.


Many US-citizens now ask themselves: "Why do they hate us?"
Why should the terrorism be directed towards the USA, so far away from the Middle East? All that hatred sounds illogical to them, because they did nothing wrong. Well, the sad truth is... Their government did something wrong, and they did it repeatedly for almost a century. US-officials have been the contractors of death and agony in dozens of countries all over this planet. Let's face the truth, South America, Africa, Middle East. The presence of CIA and US-troops, involments in coups, assasinations, bankrupcy. It all led to this very sad end.

There is a reason for everything. There is a story, a background.
So is the case with the 9/11 attacks, which is truely a tragedy.
I understand you people find it difficult to believe there was a reason for such a horrible act of terrorism, and that's why I mentioned cause and effect.


So what now? Will this empire's government cause it's own fall?
The effect would be devastating...

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by ThePlagueRat


"If you don't agree with us and do as we say, you are unpatriotic." - It's the typical rhetorics of a warmonger.
Good thing you mentioned it, 'cause I don't want anyone to feel like a traitor for disagreeing with their government.


Many US-citizens now ask themselves: "Why do they hate us?" All that hatred sounds illogical to them, because they did nothing wrong. Well, the sad truth is... Their government did something wrong, and they did it repeatedly for almost a century. US-officials have been the contractors of death and agony in dozens of countries all over this planet. Let's face the truth, South America, Africa, Middle East. The presence of CIA and US-troops, involments in coups, assasinations, bankrupcy. It all led to this very sad end.

There is a reason for everything. There is a story, a background.
So is the case with the 9/11 attacks, which is truely a tragedy.
I understand you people find it difficult to believe there was a reason for such a horrible act of terrorism, and that's why I mentioned cause and effect.

[ThePlagueRat]

Yeah, the truth is boring...

[South killer]

"If you don't agree with us and do as we say, you are unpatriotic." - It's the typical rhetorics of a warmonger. Good thing you mentioned it, 'cause I don't want anyone to feel like a traitor for disagreeing with their government.


Many US-citizens now ask themselves: "Why do they hate us?"
Why should the terrorism be directed towards the USA, so far away from the Middle East? All that hatred sounds illogical to them, because they did nothing wrong. Well, the sad truth is... Their government did something wrong, and they did it repeatedly for almost a century. US-officials have been the contractors of death and agony in dozens of countries all over this planet. Let's face the truth, South America, Africa, Middle East. The presence of CIA and US-troops, involments in coups, assasinations, bankrupcy. It all led to this very sad end.

There is a reason for everything. There is a story, a background.
So is the case with the 9/11 attacks, which is truely a tragedy.
I understand you people find it difficult to believe there was a reason for such a horrible act of terrorism, and that's why I mentioned cause and effect.


So what now? Will this empire's government cause it's own fall?
The effect would be devastating...

. I totally agree with you. USA has done a lot of terrible things in the world (installing puppet dicatorships, fueling war for its own benefits, etc) yet the american citizens don't realice about that. This is because news are seen very different inside USA than outside as USA is full of patriotic propaganda. Also, the average american is pretty ignorant so that's the reason why many americans think their country is the best, is the safeguard of democracy, etc. while the real truth is that USA only cares about its own interests and gives a damn about democracy.

FEZ: How sad there exist people like you, who don't want to see the truth.

[notyoueither]

Sure PR, there have been causes for many malevolent forces in history, and the effects have usually been very unpleasant.

Do you think it is better not to confront people who are bent on homicidal pursuit of their goals?

[ThePlagueRat]

Good question nye... I think we must confront such people, but not in the selfdestructive way the US-govt is doing it now. That will only cause more terror.

I think other parties gotta have a say in this. European countries have recieved threats now, Israel's policy has been failing for a long time, and Russia is dealing with the same problem and a group linked to the Al-Quaida. Meanwhile, the terrorists gets more support from young fanatics as the US-forces are showing more muscles in the Middle East. It's looks like a dangerous cause and effect chain...

Now, the US-officials needs to calm down and find a solution along with the rest of the world. That includes listenting to the arabic states which are also against terrorism. As South killer just said, USA govt. has made the public believe their country is the best, is the safeguard of democracy, etc. They called it a great democracy before the civil rights too, you know. It's only been about 35 years. I live in a monarchy, but we have democratic traditons dating back to the 19th century, and are NOT satisfied enough with our system.

Well, I think it falls back to the selection of information. You hear what you want to hear, mostly fro TV and radio, and don't give a damn about the rest. Luckily we have the internet as a anarchistic source. Ironically, it was founded by the US-governemt too.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by South killer

FEZ: How sad there exist people like you, who don't want to see the truth.

Yes.. I think Kirchner said something like that before...

Makes me laugh you say that..

[ThePlagueRat]

Anyone feeling enlightened?

[Vandal-1]

Fez"Really how would you know if the difference is negligible? Are you in a intelligence organization or something? Actually the difference is not negligible. Al Qaeda's base of command was Afghanistan and that was severely disrupted."
Al Queada is but a single organization while there are many.The objectives of the Mujahadeen Al Jazeera well as PLO all share a common theme,which is Arab Nationalism and the expulsion of western influence and interest.Just for the sake of arguement imagine...
If the Arabs were not divided and had a dynamic economy then they could be formidable and ,I think that eventually we will see a Unified Arab State Uhhm.. we in the West do not want it to be hostile and nuclear.
We have fought other wars in the shadows and they are political wars when reduced to basics.I don't know how to solve the underlying political cause but I think we need to do that with out any excuses,or the "cells " will only continue to grow. I know that guns serve to impose the will of the armed upon the unarmed when the politics fail and this is the cause for which the unarmed then become 'secretly' armed.Now which armed camp represents the "majority" if we were to demobillize from the occuppied area is anyone guess can anyone tell me a link or something that shows Shiite.Pashtun,Kazahkii, Kurdish and other ethnic concentrarions and there alignment with regard to this.
I agree that other energy markets should be a key issue and our dependancy on strategic rescources located with in Arab areas should be reduced to the point that they are of little consequence.

[Giancarlo]

I never said Al Qaeda was the only one. I am not that ignorant. So please don't put words where they don't belong.