nVidia caught cheating on benchmarks

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by reds4ever
Ah, Doom III, now that game is going to cost me a LOT of money, Iv'e got fast processor but a GF2 and a SDR M/B, so I'm looking at 250 GBP to play the game! Or I may just get it for my XBox...

I've actually been holding up pn buying a new kick-ass computer until Doom III comes out and can get the best one to play it smoothly. In the meantime I'm slogging through with my P3 500

[monkspider]

Am I the only one here who still thinks the Voodoo 2 is the last word in graphics cards?

[Asher]

Voodoo 2 is only a 3D card, not a graphics card.

[reds4ever]

Originally posted by Master Zen


I've actually been holding up pn buying a new kick-ass computer until Doom III comes out and can get the best one to play it smoothly. In the meantime I'm slogging through with my P3 500

You'd have trouble running Doom I on that rig, let alone DoomIII, seriously thou, up until now you don't need all those 'bells and whistles' if youre willing to compromise on screen res, shadows etc. unfortuneatly it looks like DoomIII is going to raise the bar...

[Master Zen]

Voodoo 3 still kicks major ass. Perhaps the best of its time ever?

[reds4ever]

I had a Banshee, both 3D and 2D graphics!! Before that you had to switch between the two, as Asher has alluded to

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Asher
It only makes sense to optimize your drivers so the benchmarks are higher for you.

It doesn't. It's the equivalence of saying it makes sense for athletes to take performance-boosting drugs.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
It doesn't. It's the equivalence of saying it makes sense for athletes to take performance-boosting drugs.

Hey, they sure as hell can! Provided there are no rules about it.

That's a very bad analogy, UR. Why don't you think about it for a second.

1) Graphics cards are products. Athletes are competitors.
2) Much of these optimizations result in real-world performance boosts (ie, Q3A based games).
3) Athletes are competing in organizations that do have rules, and do restrict it. There are no such rules in video cards.

Companies like their product to look their best. There's absolutely nothing wrong, illegal, or even immoral about optimizing/"cheating" in your drivers. It's your product, it's your drivers, you can do whatever the hell you want to them.

[Skanky Burns]

Graphics cards are products. That compete with each other.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Skanky Burns
Graphics cards are products. That compete with each other.

What organization governs it, and restricts such optimizations? MadOnion?

I also find it interesting that MadOnion has a partnership with ATI and not Nvidia.

There's politics going on here, I think a lot of people are being used as pawns unknowingly.

I'm not saying athletes who compete can't use performance-enhancing drugs either, they just can't while they're competing under organizations which govern that. There is no such organization (and I hope there never is) for graphics cards.

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by reds4ever


You'd have trouble running Doom I on that rig, let alone DoomIII, seriously thou, up until now you don't need all those 'bells and whistles' if youre willing to compromise on screen res, shadows etc. unfortuneatly it looks like DoomIII is going to raise the bar...

I can play FIFA 2002 on 800x600 flawlessly without a glitch with all graphic options on. Testimony to how truly great the Voodoo3 really is.

And no, I'm not planning on missing a pixel with Doom III I WANT THE WORKS!!!

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Asher
Hey, they sure as hell can! Provided there are no rules about it.

That's a very bad analogy, UR. Why don't you think about it for a second.

1) Graphics cards are products. Athletes are competitors.
2) Much of these optimizations result in real-world performance boosts (ie, Q3A based games).
3) Athletes are competing in organizations that do have rules, and do restrict it. There are no such rules in video cards.

There are no written rules. One of the idea behind benchmarks is they are fair, the playing field is even. Opimizations are a no-no because they break this basic idea.

That's why athletic competitions are such a good example. Sure, there are rules in those, but the rules are to enforce these fundamental ideas. These rules didn't exist before, they were put in place as more and more people started to cheat. This could very well be the case with things like benchmarks as well.

Originally posted by Asher
Companies like their product to look their best. There's absolutely nothing wrong, illegal, or even immoral about optimizing/"cheating" in your drivers. It's your product, it's your drivers, you can do whatever the hell you want to them.

It's not illegal per se, but it's immoral. It's like driving a race car that's been secretly modified to exceed the stated restrictions. You look good as long as you aren't exposed.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
There are no written rules. One of the idea behind benchmarks is they are fair, the playing field is even. Opimizations are a no-no because they break this basic idea.

This is nonsense -- without optimizations, Q3A-based games would be far slower for everyone.

Drivers are optimized for their most common uses. Common games are optimized for, common benchmarks are optimized for.

It's not immoral, everyone should know benchmarks are just snapshots of performance for specific applications. It's just part of what benchmarks are.

It's not illegal per se, but it's immoral. It's like driving a race car that's been secretly modified to exceed the stated restrictions.

Again, what are the "stated restrictions" in the graphics card industry?

As far as I know, the only thing that comes close is WHQL...

[Master Zen]

It's not that it's illegal or not, just that it is misleading the customer about the card's capabilities. It may be technically fair and square but it's just wrong. I would not have much faith or loyalty to a company which does that.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Master Zen
It's not that it's illegal or not, just that it is misleading the customer about the card's capabilities. It may be technically fair and square but it's just wrong. I would not have much faith or loyalty to a company which does that.

So you're not going to buy from ATI or Nvidia?

Good luck with that.