Arafat's guerrillas shot 7; world silent.

[Sava]

In all the factions of Palestinian politics (of which I'm not aware of), the one constant is the desire to blow up women and children... using women and children. The Pal's started using women suicide bombers because, according to the report I saw last night, "They don't get scrutinized as much at security checkpoints." It's only a matter of time before they start strapping bombs to 10 year old kids.

[DaShi]

Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior

This is Arafat, not some random terrorist.

Yeah, this is the real deal!

[GePap]

I don't think the PLFP ever carried out a suicide bombing inside of israel vs. civilians.

I saw that report too, and yes, it is disheartening. The porblem is, is house demolition the way to solve it back? Eye for an eye? After all, that is the original theory in the first place.

[Sirotnikov]

You'd be surprised but this isn't the first time Palestinian civilians try to stop masked gunmen. This happenned several times in the West Bank and the gunmen simply shot the Palestinians dead. This of course did not get international media coverage (no inner Palestinian conflicts do). But I reported it some year and a half ago.

About Arafat's power - he directly controls the majority of security services in the PA, as the head of the PLO and the president of the PA.

He has now, by means of presidential order, set up a "security council" to oversee the security services which according to the reform, were supposed to be under Abu Mazen, and his Minister of Security, Dahlan.

The new council consists of Abu Mazen, Dahlan, Arafat (as chairman) and 3 Arafat lakies (promising a majority to Arafat).

If you want to know more, I posted sources about this issue, about a month ago.


GePap - No PFLP never carried a suicide bombing. However they did plant car bombs, pipe bombs, and event intended to plant toy bombs.

PFLP leader was killed by IDF gunships, when Israel learnt they were planning a group of several terracts targetting children. They intended to plant explosive teddy bears and toys around kindergartens and in playgrounds.


From ICT.org.il:
(in depth details cut out)

Terror Attack - Aug 31, 2002
Mode of Operation:
Infiltration Organizational Affiliation:
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)
Target Type:
Civilian
Location:
Har Bracha, West Bank No. Casualties:
Killed: 0
Injured: 2
Details: An Israeli couple from Jerusalem sustained moderate to serious injuries when a terrorist infiltrated the settlement of Bracha, near Nablus. The infiltrator was killed.

---

Terror Attack - Jun 20, 2002
Mode of Operation:
Infiltration Organizational Affiliation:
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)
Target Type:
Civilian
Location:
Itamar, West Bank No. Casualties:
Killed: 5
Injured: 8
Details: A terrorist infiltration in the West Bank community of Itamar left five people dead and eight wounded. The dead included a mother and three of her children, who were shot to death when a Palestinian terrorist broke into their home. Two other children from the same family were evacuated to hospital with moderate to serious injuries.

---

Terror Attack - Feb 16, 2002
Mode of Operation:
Suicide Bomb Organizational Affiliation:
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)
Target Type:
Civilian
Location:
Karnei Shomron, West Bank No. Casualties:
Killed: 3
Injured: 6
Details: Three Israeli teenagers were killed and 29 other people wounded, six seriously, when a suicide bomber blew himself up next to a pizzeria in the Yovelim shopping mall in Karnei Shomron, between Kalkilya and Nablus.

---

Terror Attack - Oct 17, 2001
Mode of Operation:
Shooting Organizational Affiliation:
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)
Target Type:
Government Personnel
Location:
Jerusalem, Israel No. Casualties:
Killed: 1
Injured: 0
Details: Israel’s outgoing Tourism Minister, Rehavam Ze'evi, was killed just outside his Jerusalem Hyatt Hotel room. His wife, returning to their room on the eighth floor of the hotel, discovered him in the hallway just before 7:00 AM. He was taken to Hadassah-University Hospital where he was clinically dead on arrival; urgent treatment failed to revive him, and he was pronounced dead about two hours later, at around 10:00.

---

Terror Attack - Sep 3, 2001
Mode of Operation:
Bombing Organizational Affiliation:
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)
Target Type:
Civilian
Location:
Jerusalem, Israel No. Casualties:
Killed: 0
Injured: 6
Details: Four pipe bombs exploded in different parts of Jerusalem over a twelve-hour period. Six people were lightly wounded, and a number were treated for shock.

---

Terror Attack - Aug 27, 2001
Mode of Operation:
Shooting Organizational Affiliation:
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)
Target Type:
Airport
Location:
Har Bracha, West Bank No. Casualties:
Killed: 1
Injured: 0
Details: An Israeli motorist was shot and killed by Palestinian terrorists from a roadside ambush while travelling between the communities of Har Bracha and Itamar, South of Nablus.

---

Terror Attack - Jul 2, 2001
Mode of Operation:
Car Bomb Organizational Affiliation:
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)
Target Type:
Civilian
Location:
Yehud, Israel No. Casualties:
Killed: 0
Injured: 6
Details: At about 8:20 am on Monday, two separate bombs exploded in cars in the Tel-Aviv suburb of Yehud. Six pedestrians were lightly injured.

---

Terror Attack - May 27, 2001
Mode of Operation:
Car Bomb Organizational Affiliation:
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)
Target Type:
Civilian
Location:
Jerusalem, Israel No. Casualties:
Killed: 0
Injured: 0
Details: A car bomb exploded in the center of Jerusalem shortly after midnight. There were no injuries.

---

Terror Attack - Mar 19, 2001
Mode of Operation:
Shooting Organizational Affiliation:
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)
Target Type:
Vehicle
Location:
Gush Etzion, West Bank No. Casualties:
Killed: 1
Injured: 0
Details: An Israeli civilian was killed by shots fired at his car while driving to work in Jerusalem from his home in the area of Gush Etzion. After being hit by the bullets, he lost control of the car and collided with an oncoming truck.

---

Terror Attack - Dec 11, 1996
Mode of Operation:
Shooting Organizational Affiliation:
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)
Target Type:
Vehicle
Location:
near Surda, West Bank No. Casualties:
Killed: 2
Injured: 0
Details: Etta Tzur, 48, and her son Ephraim, 12, were killed when their car was shot at by terrorists near Surda, west of Beit El.
Further Details
According to the U.S. State Department's "Patterns of Global Terrorism," this attacks was carried out by the PFLP.

---

Terror Attack - Jun 9, 1996
Mode of Operation:
Shooting Organizational Affiliation:
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)
Target Type:
Civilian
Location:
Zekharya, Israel No. Casualties:
Killed: 2
Injured: 0
Details: Unidentified gunmen opened fire on a car near Zekharya, killing a dual US/Israeli citizen and an Israeli. The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) is suspected.

---

Terror Attack - Sep 5, 1995
Mode of Operation:
Knife Attack Organizational Affiliation:
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)
Target Type:
Civilian
Location:
Ma'aleh Michmash, West Bank No. Casualties:
Killed: 1
Injured: 1
Details: Daniel Frei, 28, of Ma'aleh Michmash, was stabbed to death when a terrorist broke into his home at night. His wife was seriously injured in the attack and lost her unborn child.

---

Terror Attack - Mar 23, 1994
Mode of Operation:
Shooting Organizational Affiliation:
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)
Target Type:
Civilian
Location:
Jerusalem, Israel No. Casualties:
Killed: 1
Injured: 0
Details: Victor Lashchiver, employed as a guard at the Income Tax offices in East Jerusalem, was shot and killed near Damascus Gate on his way to work. The Popular Front claimed responsibility for the attack.

---

Terror Attack - Jan 12, 1994
Mode of Operation:
Knife Attack Organizational Affiliation:
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)
Target Type:
Civilian
Location:
Rishon leZion, Israel No. Casualties:
Killed: 1
Injured: 0
Details: Three Palestinian workers stabbed Moshe Becker of Rishon Le-Zion to death while working in his orchard. The Popular Front claimed responsibility for the murder.

---

Terror Attack - Dec 31, 1993
Mode of Operation:
Shooting Organizational Affiliation:
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)
Target Type:
Civilian
Location:
Ramle, Israel No. Casualties:
Killed: 2
Injured: 0
Details: Chaim Weizman and David Bizi were found murdered in a Ramle apartment. ID cards of two Gaza residents were found in the apartment, together with a leaflet of the Popular Front 'Red Eagle' group, claiming responsibility for the murder.

---

Terror Attack - Oct 9, 1993
Mode of Operation:
Knife Attack Organizational Affiliation:
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)
Target Type:
Civilian
Location:
Wadi Kelt, West Bank No. Casualties:
Killed: 2
Injured: 0
Details: Dror Forer and Aran Bachar were murdered by terrorists in Wadi Kelt in the Judean Desert. The Popular Front and the Islamic Jihad 'Al-Aqsa Squads' each publicly claimed responsibility.

---

Terror Attack - Jun 27, 1976
Mode of Operation:
Hijacking Organizational Affiliation:
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)
Target Type:
Aircraft
Location:
Entebbe, Uganda No. Casualties:
Killed: 1
Injured: 0
Details: Entebbe Hostage Crisis: Members of the Baader-Meinhof Group and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) seized an Air France airliner and its 258 passengers. They forced the plane to land in Uganda, where on July 3 Israeli commandos successfully rescued the passengers.

[Edan]

Originally posted by GePap
The porblem is, is house demolition the way to solve it back? Eye for an eye?

I'm sorry, you want to explain to me how demolishing someone's home is the same thing as murdering civilians with a bomb (and suggesting using 10 year olds to do it)?

[Ned]

Originally posted by Master Zen
Sharon isn't helping the peace process at all, but if there's someone who is an even greater burden it is Arafat.

Give it up Yassir, you were a fabulous revolutionary, now you're no better than Castro, sacrificing the well being of your homeland (which I begin to think you really don't give a crap about) just for a blind and childish stranglehold of power.

Do your people a favor, get the hell out of Palestine.

Spiffor and Master Zen, I am four posts into this thread and have already read two from the left attacking Arafat. There are the first two posts I recall seeing from the left that really go after the master terrorist Arafat. If this represents a sea change from the left in recognizing that we must deal with Arafat to achieve peace in the ME, then there is real hope for the future.

[Ned]

Siro, How can the summits between Abbas and Sharon, and later Bush, go forward if Arafat still is in charge?

[Sirotnikov]

Ned, how can we not meet them when under American pressure?

But there has got to be American pressure supporting the removal of Arafat sooner or later, in whatever way.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Zevico

You're kidding, right? Tell me you're kidding here. Mazen is a Holocaust "revisionist" for crying out loud.

Show me someone better from the ****ed up bunch that is the PA. I rest my case.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by GePap
, if it were Israeli forces trying to get at militants from hamas and 7 people die, would Oerdin have said a thing? There is a certainy strange hypocrasy in that.

Sure, I would have. I would have been forced to once the ussual suspects make ten threads all saying how evil/inhuman/nasty/bad (insert derogitory statement here) the Israels are.

You don't find it even the slightest bit odd that some people endlessly crusify Israel while Arafat has his thugs gun down political decenters and no one bats an eyelash? Instead we get people making paternalistic speeches about how no one ever really expects the Palestinians to behaive differently. As if some how Palestinian Arabs just can't be held to the same standards as the civilized world

I say they can be held to the same standards and if we force the issue we just might be able to help the Palestinian people rid themselves of this injustice.

[Sirotnikov]

I say they can be held to the same standards and if we force the issue we just might be able to help the Palestinian people rid themselves of this injustice.

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Ned


Spiffor and Master Zen, I am four posts into this thread and have already read two from the left attacking Arafat. There are the first two posts I recall seeing from the left that really go after the master terrorist Arafat. If this represents a sea change from the left in recognizing that we must deal with Arafat to achieve peace in the ME, then there is real hope for the future.

There has never been a change. Any person with a speck of intelligence be him left, center or right can tell Arafat is the foremost impedimtnet to the peace process. I don't understand why there is so much generalizations about what leftists believe, that we apparently seem to defend every terrorist and dictator out there. That's bull. If only your side could also stop putting ideology before reason and start questioning your own positions on things THEN there would be hope for the future.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Master Zen


There has never been a change. Any person with a speck of intelligence be him left, center or right can tell Arafat is the foremost impedimtnet to the peace process. I don't understand why there is so much generalizations about what leftists believe, that we apparently seem to defend every terrorist and dictator out there. That's bull. If only your side could also stop putting ideology before reason and start questioning your own positions on things THEN there would be hope for the future.

Master Zen, hopefully we are on the same side, left and right, in opposing dictatorships and in favor of liberation of oppressed peoples.

[MichaeltheGreat]

The problem is that in reality, the left "liberates" people for the benefit of "the party" (whichever one it happens to be) while the right "liberates" people for the benefit of an external elite, whether it's as a proxy for a foreign power, for multinational corporations (United Fruit and M. A. Hanna are historical examples), or for the benefit of a stratified socioeconomic elite. The end result is that most people just get screwed by a new leadership, maybe working for a new set of masters.

[Dinner]

We certainly screwed the West Germans when we liberated them. Same goes for the Japanese and the Koreans.