I need Calculator Advice.

[Ramo]

In a probability course, I think it's be crazy to prohibit calculators. Maybe graphing calculators, but forcing one to do everything by hand would be sadistic.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
He isn't using it for university math... he's using it for statistics (which in some unis is seperate) and economics.

For my statistics courses, they still weren't allowed. They're also not allowed in any of my computer science classes, and we have to do all kinds of mathematics and arithmetic for numbers that aren't even in base 10.

The idea behind banning calculators is, during university, you get a better understanding of how it works.

[Ramo]

A test that bases your grade on how well you do arithmatic is stupid unless you're taking an arithmatic course.

[Asher]

The arithmetic is usually not very complex in those types of courses, since that's not what they're testing.

[Ramo]

Probability was the only math course in college where I needed a calculator. Doing crazy factorials by hand isn't fun.

[loinburger]

I've used a calculator in every math class I've taken since freshman year of high school. Why cripple yourself?

For statistics a scientific calculator would probably suffice.

[Guest]

In math at univesity they officially disallow calculators except scientific, but here it is seldom applied because no one brings any (graphic or scientific).

[Whaleboy]

For once I have to agree with Asher. Especially in anything but very advanced pure maths and mechanics (and stats where one would otherwise have to perform menial and pointless calculations over and over... hang that IS stats ), I think that calculators, especially the newer ones that can factorise are probably harming peoples ability to do maths in their heads.

I regret being allowed calculators in maths when I studied it, because I wasnt able to tune my mind properly to the task and the subject. As such, I didnt do as well as I could have, as I like to think that the human brain is more powerful (if not as fast) as a piece of silicon. However, I relied on that silicon.

If the brain can do it, and do it reasonably fast, then while your learning it, "crippling yourself" will build up your skills faster.

I'll ask some of my compski maths type friends about your problem, if they have a solution, I'll PM you if this thread is no longer visible, no promises mind.

[Immortal Wombat]

Banning calculators is stupid. Nowhere will you be required to perform calculations that calcs can do without one IRL, so why not use them while learning techniques? They save time.

Sure up to maybe age 15/16 then disallow them for basic calculations, but once you're past that, you don't (stats excluded) need them for anything more than time saving, torturous arithmatic that you could do in your head, but simply isn't worth the effort. Maybe trigonometry, but then they're just electronic trig tables.
And once you get to Uni maths, most of it is proofs and stuff where you don't even see a number all year, just numbers. Calcs are useless.

I find cheap ones are better, because then when you get really frikking pissed off half way through the calculation, and the damn thing just isn't coming out right over and over and over, and you lose your temper and smash your elbow down through the calculator crushing the circuit board between bone and table and rendering it utterly useless (if maybe after a brief period of amusement where only half the buttons work), it's cheaper to replace.

Incidentally, I did an A-level maths exam today and used my calculator (£7 Casio) twice.

Graphics calculators aren't all that much more useful, except when you download the instructions of how to program MineSweeper to keep yourself amused in Stats lessons. Then it takes almost as much brain effort to program the graph you want it to draw (scales, line of fit, blah blah) than to work it out in the first place.

This is the longest post I've posted in months, and it's about calculators.

[loinburger]

Calculators make a lot of mental math completely unnecessary. Why bother memorizing all of the rules dictating how logarithms are multiplied or added or whatever? Or the rules dictating how you integrate an ArcTan, or the rules dictating how you add/multiply/etc. roots together? If I really need to know how it's done sometime later in life, then I'll look it up in a table. More likely, if I need to know what log₂18 + log_ePI / log₁₀27.3 reduces down to, then I'm going to plug it into a calculator and see what comes up. Four significant figures is enough for me.

Being able to do some forms of mental math is still helpful (for the speed benefit if for no other reason), but other forms of mental math are completely extraneous. Let people use their calculators and figure out for themselves what mental math processes they want to develop and what processes they want to leave to the calculator.

[Asher]

Originally posted by elijah
For once I have to agree with Asher. Especially in anything but very advanced pure maths and mechanics (and stats where one would otherwise have to perform menial and pointless calculations over and over... hang that IS stats ), I think that calculators, especially the newer ones that can factorise are probably harming peoples ability to do maths in their heads.

I regret being allowed calculators in maths when I studied it, because I wasnt able to tune my mind properly to the task and the subject. As such, I didnt do as well as I could have, as I like to think that the human brain is more powerful (if not as fast) as a piece of silicon. However, I relied on that silicon.

If the brain can do it, and do it reasonably fast, then while your learning it, "crippling yourself" will build up your skills faster.

I agree, my high school permitted graphing calculators, and when I got to university I had to re-learn so much stuff since I was overly dependant on the graphing calculator to do everything. I understand the mechanics and fundamentals of mathematics much better now that I was forbidden from using calculators.

At first I thought it sucked, I thought it was stupid as soon as I heard about it, but it truly is a better way to learn math, IMO.

The argument that "no where in real life would you be forbidden to use calculators" doesn't apply to universities as far as I'm concerned. Universities are about general enlightenment and education and understanding, it's not a technical training school for the real world. If you want that, go to a technical school.

[Immortal Wombat]

I understand the mechanics and fundamentals of mathematics much better now that I was forbidden from using calculators.

I still don't get this. How can you use a calculator without understanding how it works out the answer?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Universities are about general enlightenment and education and understanding, it's not a technical training school for the real world. If you want that, go to a technical school.

So then what is you opposition to having philosophy as a major in universities?

If universities are to train you for work, and for many subjects that is exactly what they are doing, then they should not force you to do things that would be utter ridiculous in the work force. For that reason I believe all liberal arts courses should have a paper requirement and not an exam, etc.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
So then what is you opposition to having philosophy as a major in universities?

Bull**** is not useful. Some of the philosophy courses that are useful to poli-sci and economics majors should be moved into their respective departments.

Understanding mathematics, when you take mathematics courses, is useful.

I still don't get this. How can you use a calculator without understanding how it works out the answer?

Have you ever used a graphing calculator? Limits are trivial to discover without understanding how, matrix multiplications, inversions, derivatives, rotations can be done, everything...

[Imran Siddiqui]

Bull**** is not useful.

*ahem* You said:

Universities are about general enlightenment and education and understanding

Philosophy definetly falls under general enlightenment .

Have you ever used a graphing calculator? Limits are trivial to discover without understanding how, derivatives can be done, everything...

Yes I have... and I don't see why I should have to know how to do derivatives in my head (though I did at one time, when I wasn't allowed to use calculators to do so... grrr).