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  • #31
    Yes the US has to do more to maintain order, despite some of the "what could be considered intentional sabotage by the previous hierarchy". Which, if true, is a continuation of the hostilities, that will take some time to get under control. All of which, can't be planned for.

    But many anti-americans have used hindsight to condemn decisions made (actually jumping in glee to be able to give us crap). SO I think it's fair that a little hindsight can be used to tell them to cool it.

    RAH
    It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
    RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O

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    • #32
      What would they have to gain?

      Some of it might have been lying in order to show how bad the evil occupiers (R) were. On the other hand, it was probably mostly people just assuming the worst in absence of clear evidence.
      I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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      • #33
        actually jumping in glee to be able to give us crap

        It's amazing, rah. I saw an article about mass graves in a German newspaper yesterday that spent half the time quoting people *****ing and moaning about how the US wasn't sealing off the area. Like the mass grave itself was an afterthought!
        I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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        • #34
          Originally posted by PLATO1003


          So your time frame to secure a country and go from combat to administrative ops is one week ?? Get real.

          You know...The US only has so much capacity to move people. Their are still forces pouring into Iraq. Yesterday Rumsfield said that an additional 15,000 would arrive within the next 10 days. You are simply not paying attention to the reality of invading another country. Ah week??? Ridiculous. If there are still problems after 6 months, then lets start raising the questions. At that point I will be there with you. So far, I think that the effort and the results have been remarkable when compared to the magnitude of the problem.
          Plato, give me a break, you don't think there was a reason General Garner was replaced and now the new man comes in talking about revamped public security issues? 6 months, you mean after elections? 6 months of what is currently going on would be an incredible disaster, but somehow I'm sure if you were willing to wait that long without criticism, you would find it in your heart to keep looking for excuses.

          EDIT - Damn, my mind is far away.
          Last edited by gsmoove23; May 15, 2003, 13:54.

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          • #35
            DanS?

            Also, let's try to keep this thread focused on the Iraqi cultural heritage that has not been destroyed, as originally feared.
            I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

            Comment

            • #36
              Originally posted by DanS
              DanS?
              DanS?
              "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

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              • #37
                they're so intent to give us crap that they don't even know who's saying what, just quickly denouncing anything and everything.
                It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
                RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O

                Comment

                • #38
                  Originally posted by DanS
                  actually jumping in glee to be able to give us crap

                  It's amazing, rah. I saw an article about mass graves in a German newspaper yesterday that spent half the time quoting people *****ing and moaning about how the US wasn't sealing off the area. Like the mass grave itself was an afterthought!
                  Hate to jump on the bandwagon here but its more like prosecuting horrible crimes against humanity is an afterthought. The sites are being taken apart by people looking for their loved ones. Can't really blame them or the military for not stopping them, but I can also see the criticism.

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                  • #39
                    oops

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                    • #40
                      Dan,

                      I saw a story on the mass grave too, and there was a quote in there from some head of some international agency *****ing & moaning because we "were allowing the Iraqis to dig up the grave" instead of stopping them and preserving the evidence.

                      Which is it? Do we allow them to do as they wish (I got the distinct impression that it was relatives trying to identify family members) or do we prevent them (thus seriously pissing them off) so that some court in Europe can have evidence to use against people that are either dead, on the run or in US custody already?

                      -Arrian
                      grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                      The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

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                      • #41
                        oops

                        Crosspost, sorry.

                        -Arrian
                        grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                        The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

                        Comment

                        • #42
                          6 months of what is currently going on would be an incredible disaster, but somehow I'm sure if you were willing to wait that long without criticism, you would find it in your heart to keep looking for excuses.
                          I don't disagree with this. Rather I am saying that you should expect some things along these lines in the beginning. You should also expect them to lessen over time. I don't think that you could say that the country is secure for at least 6 months however.

                          You just can't expect immediate law and order. Sure, it would be nice, but it is pretty unrealistic.
                          "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

                          Comment

                          • #43
                            At a news conference today, General McKiernan said that the pace of shootings and looting was declining and that enough troops would soon be on the streets to deal with the problem. "You still have a law and order problem, but as I get reports back from the units, we have less frequency of those reports," he said.
                            So things are getting better...

                            But that is not the perception of most Iraqis, rich or poor, who have become bitterly angry at what they see as American unwillingness to restore order. "How is it that the Americans, who have all the technology and all the power, cannot do something about the violence in the streets?" said the owner of a small bus service that runs between Baghdad and Damascus.
                            So things are getting worse...

                            Gee I wonder: Which guy will the NY Times reporter believe: The US general or the Iraqi little guy?

                            Maybe it's me but a NY Times reporter talking to _one_ Iraqi does not equal "the perception of most Iraqis, rich or poor". Sorry. I don't buy it. Sounds like typical lazy journalism disguised as a hard hitting piece but with little evidence behind it. Maybe there's more to the story but the link provided is hidden behind some login screen.

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                            • #44
                              Please, please, we're talking about the Iraqi national heritage in this thread. You know, the one that is intact, after hearing so much about how it had been destroyed?

                              Let's keep a focus on the good news. Thanks.
                              I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                              Comment

                              • #45
                                Originally posted by PLATO1003
                                I just don't understand how come people want to vilify the US military. They go into a foriegn capital with lead combat elements and everybody expects them to have a whole security infrastructure in place right away. This is simply ridiculous. It takes time for any security apparatus to be set up. Most units were responsible for certain areas from a military point of view. They did their jobs well. You simply cannot move enough people that quickly to be all things to all people. Is it a failure of planning? I don't think so. It is just a reality of an invasion.

                                GePap: You never cease to amaze me. You like to post comments that insinuate that the US military is incompetent because it isn't God. You eithier don't understand logistics or are simply trying to be inflammatory.

                                Give 'em a break for once.
                                Now there you go inserting facts into someone's hate-filled rant against those awful icky Americans.

                                Anymore impossible things you'd like GePap to try?

                                |"Anything I can do to help?" "Um. Short of dying? No, can't think of a |
                                | thing." -Morden, Vir. 'Interludes and Examinations' -Babylon 5 |

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