Stupid patriotic Americans

[Ming]

Originally posted by GePap
And of course you don't quote the rest? how convinient.

Why bother quoting more irrelevent information. Comparing this action to the Nazi's is just blowing smoke.

a boycott is not just not buying!!!!! A boycott goes beyond that. A boycott means someone organizing an active campaing against the artist.

So what... It's their right to do so. They made them rich... they can stop doing so. That's their way of getting their opinions listened to by the press... Unlike the DC's... they don't have the press at their beck and call. They have every right of "using" the press to get their opinions across just like the DC's did.

People did not make them wealthy becuase they agreed with thier poltiics: they made them wealthy cause they liked their music.

As I and others have stated before (which you ignore because it doesn't fit into your arguments), it's more than just the music. They made them wealthy because they liked their music and them. Once they let their fans down by showing them a side of themselves they didn't like... the gravy train ended. As it should. The fans have the right to buy or not to buy... to organize a boycott or not. IT'S their right.

The DC's are the real morons here. They should have known how their fan base would react to their statements... And then to whine about it is even funnier... In business (and this is business) the first lesson you learn is "DON'T PISS OFF YOUR FAN'S"...

Obviously a lesson they never learned.

There is nothing wrong with them having opinions different than their fans... and nothing wrong with them expressing them... But they were morons to think that it wouldn't effect sales... because fans have the same rights of free expression... and a legal boycott is just one of them.

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Ming


Why bother quoting more irrelevent information. Comparing this action to the Nazi's is just blowing smoke.

What, so, when you make a Nazi comparison your argument is trash? Pretty naive IMO? Why is it some people have such a hard time accepting a Nazi comparison within a historical perspective instead of getting feisty when that word is even mentioned?

For the record, I think ultimately the DC and the fans have the right to do whatever they want. The fans can go and boicott their music, fine with me. Goes to show just how brainless and moronic those fans are and frankly, if I were the DC I'd rather have few GOOD fans than a bunch of lousy ones.

Also, I do think that being a fan of an artist goes a little more than just listening to the music. IMO great artists are also great people and what they do in life certainly affects my perception of them. Then again, there are people who don't think this way too. I guess it all depends on each of us.

[SlowwHand]

And you're allowed your opinion, just as other fans and/or former fans and/or never fans are allowed the same right.

Oh, I forgot. You won't see this.

[Master Zen]

BTW, I was going to respond to the idea of this thread, not on this DC debate...


I think "patriotism" has gone overboard in the US. Theres really a limit to what is sane patriotism and what is just crazy right-wing nutness and sadly a lot of that is going around, at least that's what I felt the last time I visited which was about a year ago. I assume that due to the Iraq war it is even worse now. Loving one's country and wishing the best for it is IMO something that every citizen of every country should have. Support of its troops even despite a war being waged unjustly is also fair since those troops don't decide whether they want to fight or not, it's their job.

However, what ticks me off is how this "patriotism" has turned into mindless French-bashing (the ultimate in hipocrecy), blind belief in everything the government spits out, and narrowmindedness in hearing and especially accepting other points of view. I have always found if funny that the term "un-American" exists. I believe it is the only country which has such term, and even funnier that in a country which values individualism and diverstiy so much, it chooses to brand a concept as being "American" or not. What is "American"? Who has a monopoly on that definition? Why is not supporting the war, or supporting Bush seen by some as "un-American"?

If everyone has the liberty to say what they please, I find such a word almost a classic Orwellian example of doublespeak.

Anyway, I applaud the people, like the person who started this thread, who doubt what is being said around them. They are in my book, far more patriotic than others who just go around spouting blasphemies in the name of their country.

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
And you're allowed your opinion, just as other fans and/or former fans and/or never fans are allowed the same right.

Oh, I forgot. You won't see this.

Just because you like mexican beer I am seeing this

[SlowwHand]

Oh, MAN! Fooled my nappy ass.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Master Zen
What, so, when you make a Nazi comparison your argument is trash?

Yeah... when it isn't relevent
And all you are trying to do is distract from the argument by using the ole Nazi Boggie Man...

[SlowwHand]

Actually, I'm sure Hitler had some good thoughts.
It's just that they got lost in the shuffle of all the terrible ones.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Azazel


So do you think only the real men that saw combat can decide national policy? Because that's what you're saying. The hawks that never saw combat don't have the right to do it, and the doves that never saw combat neither have the right to do it, nor want to do it. Only the real hardcore supertroopers have the right to determine policy.

Azazel, actually this was the system during the Roman Empire. The only people who could hold office and in fact the only people could vote for those who held office were the "military."

Seem to do Romans quite well.

[Kramerman]

However, what ticks me off is how this "patriotism" has turned into mindless French-bashing

sheesh. I can understand reading a lot of extreme gerneralizations about America, but i fear some people on these forums may actually believe them

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Ming


Yeah... when it isn't relevent
And all you are trying to do is distract from the argument by using the ole Nazi Boggie Man...

umm... nope.

You're the one distracting from the argument by saying it is trash and not bothering to answer it intellecutally. I for one have never been offended by a Nazi comparison, or a comparison for any other historical perspective. If the argument is trash, I'll trash it with a reply, not use the Nazi Boogie Man as an excuse.

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Actually, I'm sure Hitler had some good thoughts.
It's just that they got lost in the shuffle of all the terrible ones.

and it takes just a few terrible ones to blow away all the good ones.... and that goes to ANY regime, not just Hitler's.

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Kramerman


sheesh. I can understand reading a lot of extreme gerneralizations about America, but i fear some people on these forums may actually believe them

I am not saying all people in the US, not even a majority in fact, hold these views. Unfortunately, those happen to be the ones with the biggest mouths.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Master Zen
I think "patriotism" has gone overboard in the US. Theres really a limit to what is sane patriotism and what is just crazy right-wing nutness and sadly a lot of that is going around, at least that's what I felt the last time I visited which was about a year ago. I assume that due to the Iraq war it is even worse now. Loving one's country and wishing the best for it is IMO something that every citizen of every country should have. Support of its troops even despite a war being waged unjustly is also fair since those troops don't decide whether they want to fight or not, it's their job.
...

Anyway, I applaud the people, like the person who started this thread, who doubt what is being said around them. They are in my book, far more patriotic than others who just go around spouting blasphemies in the name of their country.

Right wing nuttiness! The problem with this post and the original post by John C. MacLeod are that it assumes that a belief that America is good and can do good is right wing nuttiness. Patriotism does not believe that United States is better than other countries and that Americans are better than other people. It believes in certain general principles such as democracy and human rights. We patriotic Americans are willing to fight for freedom, for ourselves for the sake of others. We are willing to fight and die to liberate people being oppressed by a Nazi dictator. We welcome the support of others in the world who believe the same as we do. This is inclusive, non exclusive. Our patriotism is a belief that we can do good and have done good in liberating Iraq. When we succeed in liberating a people and bringing them freedom and justice from oppression and murder, we are proud. Such is American patriotism.

[Master Zen]

So, then, anyone who DOESN'T belive that you can do good and have doon good in liberating Iraq is un-Patriotic? See what I mean?

Btw, don't even bring up democracy and human rights in the issue as there are countless examples of the US ignoring these things.