NAFTA Years Later

[Seeker]

Also: what do you consider a worker 'right'?

I would consider:

-Severance pay.
-Sick leave.
-Maternity leave
-Safety
-Overtime (1.5)
-non-toxic environment

-Max hours per week (50)...or anything to limit workers who work such long hours that it is physically impossible for them to be working safely and healthily.

-The availability of some kind of professional assistance with regard to contracts, enforcement, negotiation, etc, be it a union, a government agency, a professional society. They should not be able to pick some kid up off the street, work him hard for a year, and then screw him 'cause he can't read or is uneducated.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Oerdin, simply put, you don't know WTF you're talking about.

On the contrary my friend I do. Before you deride companies which invest in Mexico as "bandits" who don't care about their workers please understand that these people litterally had NOTHING!!!! before investers came and paid to set up a factory. Of course you're not going to see an entire society change over night. Before the factory was there they had no potable water, no sanitation, no jobs, little food, no education. Now there is a factory there and most things haven't changed except now they make more money then they did before and their standard of living has improved.

It's going to take lots and lots of little investments built up over a long period of time in order to create a society which has the infastructure you spoke about. Name calling directed at the only people who are actually doing something to improve these people's lives is not helpful nor benificial to the poor people.

[gunkulator]

I fear that future generations will look back on our times with the same disadain that we look back on countries that allowed or promoted slavery. Slavery hasn't ended. It has just moved beyond our borders so we don't have to see it everyday.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Seeker
(world explodes) I don't think I've ever seen an Oerdin post where I can't find something to disagree with....this is a first...

I must have not understood you.

I am an opinionated guy; that I can't deny. I do try to have a few facts support my positions though.

[Az]

All on the decline because corporate "Bandits" move to Mexico?

You better stop insulting MtG.

[Plan Austral]

Typical american protectionism.
They claim to be in favour of free-market, and try to impose it in other countries, but when they are found to be not competitive they cry for protection and subsidies.

[Sava]

just a little too socialist for my republican, money grubbing stance.

that's why I hate labels and stereotypes... I am not a Socialist... I just think they have some good ideas.

[Japher]

They claim to be in favour of free-market, and try to impose it in other countries, but when they are found to be not competitive they cry for protection and subsidies.

Americans all know that nothing is "free".

Protection and subsidies? Yeah, it rather suks when your competitors are using cheaper labor that are 6 years old and working 18 hour days for 50 cents... While you may think that most corporations are only about the buck, some of them actually look out for the worker... since the get calculated in to their profit margins

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Plan Austral
Typical american protectionism.
They claim to be in favour of free-market, and try to impose it in other countries, but when they are found to be not competitive they cry for protection and subsidies.

America is not a dictatorship. Some of us are free trade and unfortunately others are protectionist (unfortunately usually when it benefits them personally). NAFTA is a free trade agreement. It just needs to be continually fixed so that protectionism is removed.

[Japher]

that's why I hate labels and stereotypes... I am not a Socialist... I just think they have some good ideas.

I was refering to your ideas, but that didn't come out to clear... but, I love labels and stereotypes

[Plan Austral]

Oh, and how is that related to agriculture subsidies for example?

Argentina,Canada, New Zeland, Australia, we dont employ 6 years old kids in our farms..

Anyway, I am not anti-american, the french are worse.

[Sava]

Mine are similar to some Socialist ideas, but are terribly opposite in others. I want to create more of a free-market for business. But my definition of business differs from some of the so called "capitalists". Personally, I don't think a child's education or the health of the people should be a business. Consumer goods are a different story. These are things people don't need. I simply want to seperate business from humanitarian sectors. And then I want to create an environment free from outside influence so it can prosper.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Plan Austral
Anyway, I am not anti-american, the french are worse.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Azazel

All on the decline because corporate "Bandits" move to Mexico?

You better stop insulting MtG.

Ay-yay-yay-yaaaay, I am dee Frito Bandito...

[Japher]

Sava: I could debate you on some of those views, maybe here is not the place to do that. I will say; that while your views have good intentions I am not totally convinced your ideas would work.

Plan Austral:

Argentina,Canada, New Zeland, Australia, we dont employ 6 years old kids in our farms..

Thats nice, now lets name the countries that do.

Also, these countries would probably get more attention, and buisness, from the US if they did employ child labor.

Anyway, I am not anti-american

That's nice.

On Ag subsidies: I have no idea. All I know is that most Ag production is now being ran by corporations. Soon, the gov. may kick all subsidies out the door, since these corporations make a lot of money and do not souly rely on one harvest, unlike old mom and pop farms.