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it would appear to me that communal solidarity comes from w/in, not handed down by government.
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You think that influencing how the community is run has no impact on communal solidarity?"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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yes but the fundamental strength comes from within. and I just dont see the kind of culture there that promotes things that you need for success.
I dont think giving ex cons the right to vote will change the culture. so its like trying to sway this little thing when this big monster looms in the doorway.Comment
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I'm not saying that it's all that important a factor, only that it's significant."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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I'm not trying to tie a former convicts right-to-vote to the level of crime. What I'm trying to say is that individuals who have taken the road less traveled in life, should have their rights available.Originally posted by yavoon
ok so lets run a test. we reinstate ex convicts right to vote. and the crime rate will drop right? I mean we've removed this great political barrier. look how important voting is, its wut drives all of democracy. so surely if we change something this radically we should see a reaction.
I think ur using distant logic. w/o considering the group u r trying to assert it on.
Individuals who have served the sentence that the system has given them, should be treated as "normal" citizens...not second-class citizens.
Even if reinstating a former convicts voting power has no influence at all on the crime rate, these people should benefit from the society that they are in.
I agree that these people should take responsibility for their actions. BUT, after they have served their sentence, they should have their rights given back to them. I do not know the details on this case, but I do know that the actual worth was really low.good. stealing is wrong. .50$, 10 000$. I still dont think there is a 14$ golf club? wut did he steal? a handle?
neway if u have 2 strikes and steal 14$ worth of clubs, SOMETHING IS WRONG W/ U. a lil personal responsibility is probably in order.Despot-(1a) : a ruler with absolute power and authority (1b) : a person exercising power tyrannically
Beyond Alpha Centauri-Witness the glory of Sheng-ji Yang
*****Citizen of the Hive****
"...but what sane person would move from Hawaii to Indiana?" -DisComment
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not important just significant. k.
=DComment
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For myself, it's not a matter of changing the culture, it's a matter of 'the right thing to do'. Ok, it might not make any difference in the long run. But that doesn't mean that it SHOULDN'T be done.Originally posted by yavoon
I dont think giving ex cons the right to vote will change the culture. so its like trying to sway this little thing when this big monster looms in the doorway.Despot-(1a) : a ruler with absolute power and authority (1b) : a person exercising power tyrannically
Beyond Alpha Centauri-Witness the glory of Sheng-ji Yang
*****Citizen of the Hive****
"...but what sane person would move from Hawaii to Indiana?" -DisComment
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k frankyComment
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I can see your side of the debate too, so don't get mad.
Good debate!
Despot-(1a) : a ruler with absolute power and authority (1b) : a person exercising power tyrannically
Beyond Alpha Centauri-Witness the glory of Sheng-ji Yang
*****Citizen of the Hive****
"...but what sane person would move from Hawaii to Indiana?" -DisComment
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When I say that it's not all that important, I mean it's not a primary factor."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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I wonder how the people arguing that it's ok to take away an ex-convicts voting rights would feel if they had their driving licences taken away after they got a parking ticket?19th Century Liberal, 21st Century EuropeanComment
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hmmmm, what is moral and how does moral work?Originally posted by yavoon
its not just emotional, its moral. its part of ur responsibility to society etc...
I think we can agree that moral prevents people from committing crimes. so as long as your conscience tells you not to commit a crime, and as long as you follow your conscience, you behave moral. but does your moral make it necessary that criminals become punished?
or other way round: would you consider a person. who is able to forgive, less moral , than a person, who insists on a punishment?justice is mightComment
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It pissed me off to no end. Luckily, I just paid the tickets and got it back.Originally posted by el freako
I wonder how the people arguing that it's ok to take away an ex-convicts voting rights would feel if they had their driving licences taken away after they got a parking ticket?I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator RubioComment
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The three strikes law still exists in some states? damn I'm surprised. Pennsylvania don't got it.
Oedo:
you're getting into the area of lunacy by saying there should be no punishments for crimes... rapists should be let off the hook?"Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
"I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben KenobiComment
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oedo I don't think I'm the moral relativist u r. so thats probably where we aren't seeing eye to eye.Comment
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