Should convicts be allowed to vote?

[oedo]

Originally posted by yavoon
oedo I would say that before you commit ur first crime the idea is to prevent crime. but once u have broken the law and taken away someone else's rights? life? liberty? money? then there is some definite punishment involved w/ me.

and I see no problem w/ taking away a felon's right to vote.

I know about three theories, why crime law is (said to be) useful.

1. general prevention: people shall be prevented from committing crimes because they know they will be punished for crimes.
2. individual prevention: people who turned out beeing criminals shall be reintegrated into society. they shall learn their lesson for the next time.
3. theory of retaliation: serving the human need for justice.

(a fourth reason is conceivable: people should get imprisoned, so they can´t do any harm to the people outside anymore. as long as I studied law, this didn´t make it to an official theory here in Germany and - as I suppose - in many other countries as well. but we don´t need this theory here, since taking away the right of voting doesn´t shelter anyone in anyway.)

it´s up to you, if you believe in general or individual prevention. but there are provable cases where individual prevention has worked. the general prevention theory is hard to prove. I simply believe in it and I also believe that taking away further civil rights would undermine this aim.
I also don´t see a reason, why the human need for justice and revenge should be more important than keeping the crime rate as low as possible in a society. also i think the punishment itself should be able to fulfill the human need for justice, so there´s no need for any further restriction.

[Q Classic]

As I see it you need a good reason to strip someone of their right to vote in a democratic country.

the way it's been done in the past is that if you committed a felony, you lose your right to vote. back then, i suppose it was a pretty good reason. these days, it seems like a justifiable reason.

it's the status quo. is there an immediate and pressing need to change it?

[yavoon]

sorry oedo I believe in punishment for crimes. if u violate another persons rights etc etc... then u should be punished, ur other considerations are noted and I agree. but u leaving out simple human responsibility is not something I can do. maybe I'm being idealogical, but thats just how it is w/ me.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by yavoon
I dont know of the NYC program. can they expell ppl from the program? are they selective about who enters the program?

Yes, people can be expelled and yes they are selective. No violent criminals are elligible, so I'm sure this skews the results. Drug criminals, however, are eligible, and they are very recidivist.

I'm not against effective rehabilitation but unlike liberals I place the onus on the person, not the society.

I don't care about onus. For me, what is important is being protected from criminals. I don't want them hurting me, anyone I know or anyone at all for that matter. Get them away from law-abiding people. That's what's important. But, do so in a way that, once they come back into society, they aren't a danger to us. At a certain point, punishment goes beyond corrective and becomes counter-productive. If you beat the bejeezuz out of a dog every time he makes a mistake, you aren't teaching him not to make mistakes, you're teaching him to fear and hate you. Humans are similar in that way.

On top of that, it would be nice that if, once returned to society, ex-criminals could actually contribute to it. Conservatives will gnash their teeth about being soft-hearted, but I'm looking out for mine. A guy who has a shot at getting a job is a guy who isn't looking to break into my apartment or trying to smash my face in to steal my bike.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
a friend of mine's father is a prison guard and he says that many criminals return within a year of being released and don't seem to mind.

Prison guards have a vested interest in recidivism. Without it, they'd lose their jobs.

[gsmoove23]

Is it? I thought that a minority of states prohibit ex-felons from voting.

[Skanky Burns]

To be honest, I don't care. No-one that I know and care about is likely to become a felon.

Besides, if I were heading to jail, my ability to vote or not would be very low on my priority list.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
1 in 4 black males in some states are ineligible to vote due to being convicts

That's 1 in 4 black males under 30 if my memory serves. In any event our society should be color-blind and enforce the law equally even if one group is satistically more likely to commit crime.

[yavoon]

haha yes I think it is an interesting point that if u make prison better than a ghetto u might be counter-counter productive. or some such thing.

[Frankychan]

Former inmates should have their right to vote after a "probationary" period. Hawaii is considering to have their inmates access to vote after their release. Unfortunately, it is not a big thing so i don't think it will be even introduced to the legislation.

However, some professors here are discussing a movement to reform Hawaii's prisons from penitentiaries to rehabilitation centers.

[Frankychan]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Prison guards have a vested interest in recidivism. Without it, they'd lose their jobs.

Exactly. California's prison guard Union makes sure they have friendly politicians in office that attests to this.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Oerdin
That's 1 in 4 black males under 30 if my memory serves.

Nope, it's all Black males. Nationally 1 in 4 Black men are either in jail, prison, parole or probation.

[Al B. Sure!]

to be honest, with me for example... i dont know how i'd manage if my complicated matters with Temple U didnt work out... in some ways, it'd be easier for me to just get arrested and be in jail than try to figure out how to make a living.

[GePap]

I certainly agree with Ming ( ), once your term is done, you have served your time and all your rights should be returned to you, specially voting, which is the most important of all rights a citizen has.

[SlowwHand]

Nope.
That's part of the punishment.