Should convicts be allowed to vote?

[Vandal-1]

How many of the men who founded this country were criminals according to the crown?How many men who walked the the corridors of Ellis Island and the portage of Philidelelphia were criminals according to the government?The trend lately is for people to sacrifice their rights in order to feel more secure and any man or government who would take my gun or my vote has a damn good reason to feel insecure because he loves fascism and I love liberty and I'll pay for my liberty while I exact payment from him for his fascism.When they walk out the gate of whatever hell they were sent to for reasons good or bad they are once again my brother and I need my brothers to stand with me so that we can all enjoy freedom. Who fears their vote not you and not me.Take a guess and tell me again about crime and punishment.

[yavoon]

fluff ahoy captain.

[Ramo]

Ex-cons absolutely should be allowed to vote. Disenfranchising these people cuts them off from connections to their communities, what they need last. Responsibility to and solidarity with society is one of the prime factors that keeps crime in check.

[yavoon]

lets not be too dramatic ramo. I think the % of cons who voted before they got convicted is pretty damn small.

[Vandal-1]

PS Do they want them voting with thier guns or with thier pens because the way things are going pretty soon there are gonna be alot of criminals look at changes in domestic law ,drug law and insurance law soon if your not a republican you are a criminal.I'm so sick of whining little fascist who give the state more and more controle over our lives for the sake of some big money Airlines,Mutual insurance groups,buerocracies(the Police and Child Support Enforcement) I believe that deterence is good to a point but it has gone too far for we now have criminals making the law and the law making criminals

[Frankychan]

so your saying the ex-convict who was arrested for shoplifting $14 worth of golfclubs should have their rights revoked?

Bah! This is junk. An individual is still an individual regardless of what they have done. If these people have served their time and are truly on the right path toward rehabilitation, they should have (almost) all their rights reinstated...voting should be one of those rights.

[gsmoove23]

we now have criminals making the law and the law making criminals

Catchy!

[yavoon]

I obviously am not familiar w/ the state's specific laws. but I imagine spending jail time for 14$ worth of golf clubs u have to have a mile of priors or decline a lawyer. so the extremist example seems unwarranted.

not to mention I dont know any golf clubs that cost just 14$.

as for vandal, I have no idea wutsup w/ him. obviously someone w/ an agenda tho.

[Ramo]

lets not be too dramatic ramo. I think the % of cons who voted before they got convicted is pretty damn small.

Umm... yes, that's the point. They felt disenfranchised by the system, so resorted to crime. Permanently and totally disenfranchising ex-cons insures that they'll continue resorting to crime.

[yavoon]

so they were disenfranchised when they had the right to vote, then they lost it and were like "**** we would have rehabilitated but yall took our right to vote which we never used so now I'm really mad! gna go steal lots!"

ok...

[Ramo]

I didn't say that. Taking away the vote creates another barrier in establishing solidarity with one's community, which leads to more crime.

[Frankychan]

There is a case in California where an individual stole $14 worth of golfclubs and this incident was his third offense. Granted, this is only a Californian incident, but this person is going to have to serve a mandatory sentence now. When/If this individual gets out,he'll basically have no rights....same as an assaulter or worse.

Since California has the third-strike rule, it's possible that he could have stolen $5 worht of stuff for his first offense, then $10 worth of stuff for his second offense. Hypothetical grand total-$29. And he gets mandatory jail time now.

[yavoon]

ok so lets run a test. we reinstate ex convicts right to vote. and the crime rate will drop right? I mean we've removed this great political barrier. look how important voting is, its wut drives all of democracy. so surely if we change something this radically we should see a reaction.

I think ur using distant logic. w/o considering the group u r trying to assert it on.

[yavoon]

good. stealing is wrong. .50$, 10 000$. I still dont think there is a 14$ golf club? wut did he steal? a handle?

neway if u have 2 strikes and steal 14$ worth of clubs, SOMETHING IS WRONG W/ U. a lil personal responsibility is probably in order.

[Ramo]

ok so lets run a test. we reinstate ex convicts right to vote. and the crime rate will drop right? I mean we've removed this great political barrier. look how important voting is, its wut drives all of democracy. so surely if we change something this radically we should see a reaction.
I think ur using distant logic. w/o considering the group u r trying to assert it on.

I think it's clear that communal solidarity is intrinsically tied to the crime rate. It's questionable that the franchise is strongly tied to communal solidarity. Certainly, it's an element of communal solidarity, and for some people may be very important. Of course, the US prison system is totally incompetent as a form of rehabilitation, so the effect may be limited. My original point is that, taking away the franchise can only hurt ex-cons' rehabilitation.