I want to be a socialist

[Agathon]

Norway, Sweden, Canada, Belgium and Australia all beat the US according to the index.

[Odin]

Originally posted by Odin


Yes they do!

The scandinavian countries (socialized utillities and Helthcare) and Israel (the collective farms) are examples of a socialistic economy that works.

EDIT: I cross-posted with Orange and Azazel.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
But they pay all of those wonderful taxes that you'd have to support being a socialist.

The point of taxation is that sometimes we are all better off when we are forced to pay for something than when we have a voluntary scheme. Health care is the most glaring example of this.

[Dis]

Scandinavia has a better standard of living than the U.S.


Imagine if they had to actually have a large military as the U.S. does. Look at socialist nations with large militaries- North Korea is one good example.

[orange]

North Korea isn't 'socialist' It's a dictatorship run in the name of Communism.

[Spiffor]

Socialism doesn't mean the State will steal your money. Socialism is a kind of economy that is different from capitalism in the meaning that stakeholders (capital-owners) do not have the economic power anymore. This power is held either by the state (à la USSR) or by the employees (à la Israeli Kibbutsim)

Sweden is a successful social-democratic country, i.e it shares the wealth among its citizens, but remains capitalist at heart. A socialist economy will very likely result in a more balanced sharing of wealth, but not with the same ways.

Basically, it is important to share wealth among the population for various reasons :

- Safety net. If you happen to have an accident in your life that makes you unable to make money, a libertarian economy will basically let you starve, or pay you the bare minimum not to starve. A "socialized" economy will help you get on your feet again.

- Efficiency. Most "socialized" economies have the State taking over activities the private sector would have a hard time to do satisfyingly. For example, state-held retirement plans have a near-inexistant chance to sink (unlike corporate ones) because they rely on a huge pool of 'clients', which limits the consequences of individual accidents. Besides, the aim of public welfare is not to earn money, even if they try to be balanced, which can lead public welfare to be less costly than private insurances.
On another issue, about public education : an efficient (I mean, well funded and reasonable) public education system can increase childrens' integration in the economy direly, and will generally raise the output of the economy, since educated workers are way more efficient than uneducated ones. You, as an individual, will profit from the general improement of the economy.
Private education, being costly, deprives many people of a good education, even if they could be bright enough to follow them. A public education is simply more efficient for everyone, even though short-term interests may veil it.

- Solidarity. Solidarity is not only altruistic. It can offer many interests to you. For instance, poverty is highly linked with criminality (even though it is not the only factor), so helping people out of their poverty will lower criminality, which will in the end be good for you.

[Odin]

Originally posted by orange
North Korea isn't 'socialist' It's a dictatorship run in the name of Communism.

Sweden is a socialist democracy, NK is a socialist despotism

[Sava]

I love how DIssident is saying Scandinavia doesn't have the same standard of living. The people who live and have actually been to Scandinavia seem to think differently.

[cinch]

Diss,

Why not just become a Social Democrat (like the Swedes & [most of] us Canadians)?

You get to keep capitalism, but now you're allowed to have a conscience!

It's the best of both worlds.

[chequita guevara]

The biggest change you'd have to make is to actually start caring about other human beings, Dissident.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Socialism doesn't mean the State will steal your money.

Show me one with low taxes.

[oedo]

Originally posted by Dissident
Imagine if they had to actually have a large military as the U.S. does. Look at socialist nations with large militaries- North Korea is one good example.

methinks you mixed something up here. there´s a slight difference between socialism as it existed in the eastern block until 1989 and social democracy as we know it from skandinavia, france or germany.
concerning the real existing socialism (as we still know it from NK for example) I think even the commies here don´t want to live under a system like that.

[chequita guevara]

Nicaragua had low taxes.

[SlowwHand]

I want to be a socialite.
Can we work that into this thread?

[Az]

oh, and Sweden is not socialist, It's a welfare state, btw.