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  • #16
    I don't see any sense in the "choice" argument. Why would anyone choose to be something that is reviled by so many? How could one "choose" to alter one's sexuality? If one could, why has it never been shown that gays can alter their own sexuality to be heterosexual? (Ignoring the specious claims of groups like Exodus, which don't publish data and have high-profile failures).

    I spent years trying to "choose" to be heterosexual, sans success. I finally did make one choice--to accept who I am and be happy with it. That's the only place where choice entered into it.
    Tutto nel mondo è burla

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    • #17
      Asher, I respectfully disagree. I think that someone open minded enough could be swayed by a gay lifestyle. In many ways some of the gays I've got for friends have a lot more fun than I do.

      I'm not trying to insinuate that someone who is gay can simply choose to be straight or vice versa. I am merely saying that I believe that choice does have a place in the mix.
      "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

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      • #18
        Boris, You are putting more weight on the word than I do. I agree in principal with what you are saying.
        "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

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        • #19
          Hey Plato, I hate to break this to you.. but homosexuality is not a choice. If it was, I would be straight. But I am not and there isn't anything I can do about it.

          I think that someone open minded enough could be swayed by a gay lifestyle.
          What the hell is the gay lifestyle?

          Do everybody a favor and stray from using labels. At apolyton, many here do not fit these labels. And I don't see how anybody could turn gay by choice or option.
          For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Fez
            Hey Plato, I hate to break this to you.. but homosexuality is not a choice. If it was, I would be straight. But I am not and there isn't anything I can do about it.



            What the hell is the gay lifestyle?

            Do everybody a favor and stray from using labels. At apolyton, many here do not fit these labels. And I don't see how anybody could turn gay by choice or option.
            Fez, I agree in principal with what you are saying. No offense intended. Please accept my apologies. I do believe you are reading more into what I said than is there. However, I do stand by my statement.
            "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

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            • #21
              Explain yourself a bit more because at this state your statement is highly ambigious. You state something and then later disagree with it. Please clarify.
              For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Fez
                What the hell is the gay lifestyle?
                One where you **** men.
                Concrete, Abstract, or Squoingy?
                "I don't believe in giving scripting languages because the only additional power they give users is the power to create bugs." - Mike Breitkreutz, Firaxis

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Immortal Wombat

                  One where you **** men.
                  For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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                  • #24
                    Fez, I don't see where I have contradicted myself. Here is my clarification:

                    Due to factors earlier discussed (biology & genetics) it is clear that ones inclination to sexual preference is determined by things other than choice.

                    However, many acknowledge that environment may be an influencing factor in manifesting that inclination. Boris even listed environment as a factor. While in many ways one does not control their environment, in some ways we do. We certainly control how we react to our environment. While I will fully agree that this is probably the least influential factor in determining sexuality, I nevertheless believe that it is a factor for some. In choosing to react the way that we do, we contribute to or work against our inclinations. This is choice.

                    Example: Let's take a high school football player. He is discovering his sexuality and has felt desires towards both men and women. 1.) The environment that he is in is so anti gay that he only acts on the desires for women. He finds one that he falls in love with and leads a happy heterosexual life. 2.) He chooses to change his association with his anti gay teammates and instead befriends a male friend who is sympathetic to his plight and understands his desire for men. It turns out that they have a mutual attraction for each other and develop a happy long term relationship.

                    This is choice.

                    Now, am I saying that everyone faces these choices...No. Am I saying that all gay men or women have faced this choice...No. I am simply saying that their are cases when choice does enter into the mix.

                    I don't know if I have adequately reflected my thoughts here, but I want to assure you that I don't have any lack of respect for your position.
                    "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

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                    • #25
                      That example is called bisexuality. There are people who only have feeling towards guys.

                      Choices? The only choice I had was to accept myself.
                      For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Fez
                        That example is called bisexuality. There are people who only have feeling towards guys.

                        Choices? The only choice I had was to accept myself.
                        And quite a good one
                        "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

                        Comment

                        • #27
                          Quite a good one what? You are too vague in your responses.. I mean no disrespect.
                          For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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                          • #28
                            Boris. I would be most honored sweety!

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                            • #29
                              Of course Heather can already have two daddies if the daddies choose to adopt.
                              Old posters never die.
                              They j.u.s.t..f..a..d..e...a...w...a...y....

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by PLATO1003
                                Asher, I respectfully disagree.
                                Okay then, I want you to choose to be gay for a month and let me know how it goes for you.
                                "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                                Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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