The Apolyton Science Fiction Discussion Group: Red Mars

[JohnT]

Title: Red Mars
Author: Kim Stanley Robinson
Released: 1993
Publisher: Bantam Spectra
Awards: Best Novel (Nebula Award, 1993).

From Amazon: “Red Mars opens with a tragic murder, an event that becomes the focal point for the surviving characters and the turning point in a long intrigue that pits idealistic Mars colonists against a desperately overpopulated Earth, radical political groups of all stripes against each other, and the interests of transnational corporations against the dreams of the pioneers.
This is a vast book: a chronicle of the exploration of Mars with some of the most engaging, vivid, and human characters in recent science fiction. Robinson fantasizes brilliantly about the science of terraforming a hostile world, analyzes the socio-economic forces that propel and attempt to control real interplanetary colonization, and imagines the diverse reactions that humanity would have to the dead, red planet.
Red Mars is so magnificent a story, you will want to move on to Blue Mars and Green Mars. But this first, most beautiful book is definitely the best of the three. Readers new to Robinson may want to follow up with some other books that take place in the colonized solar system of the future: either his earlier (less polished but more carefree) The Memory of Whiteness and Icehenge, or 1998's Antarctica. --L. Blunt Jackson “


edit by markg's evil commerce-maniac twin

[Seeker]

Pros: Scope, cool religio-cultural stuff. The 'swiss-arabs'. The wacky ecology guys.

Cons:

Characterization feels a little Arthur C Clarkish (i.e. wooden) sometimes.

Huge, incredible engineering achievements are glossed over, despite that whole national budgets would've have to have been sacrificed for, for example, the (1st)Space Stalk.

His whole colonization scheme is a little too big and sexy, the colonization ship has huge recreation decks and thousands of people! In reality it would be a tuna can with a few people and a lot of cabin fever.

He doesn't make much use of underground Roman atrium style architecture that would dominate Red mars.

Emotional Issue:
Arkady's first Mars Rebels are way too easy pushovers. The cost for sending a huge invasion fleet from earth to mars would be astronomical, let alone the fact that technologically and numerically the Martians and invading terrans should've been about equal. Also, in the battle the inflated domes are the Martians terrible weakness, while in reality a Red Mars civilization would be among the most bombardment resistent, living in hidden duricrete bunkers, with intimate knowledge of radiation, deep deep extensive extensive canyon systems, 'hard target' water and food supplies, etc.

[JohnT]

[moderator hat on]

This is the first book in a series of four – two novels follow this one, plus a collection of short stories based in the same universe. Expect Red Mars to be spoiled mercilessly, but I do implore people to use the [ spoiler ] tag when they mention plot points that occur in the later novels – even if you aren’t sure in which book a given situation occurred, use the tag.

[moderator hat off]

As I mentioned in the prior threads, I totally enjoyed this book. I was surprised when a number of people jumped in and dissented, but I have a feeling that we are probably talking about different aspects of the same book.

The first thing I enjoyed about the novel was its structure, both in how it followed disparate characters, throwing the convention of having a single point of view out the window; and also how it opened in the middle, with the reader knowing from the very start that one man was doomed to the ambitions of an old friend.

The shifting point of views was handled well, with Robinson doing a credible job of giving each character different voices, though it must be admitted it has been done better in works like Hyperion (release a year or two before this novel). Regardless, this let the reader get a glimpse into the vastness of the planet in both a physical and social sense. It is interesting that people, even ex-lovers, lose contact with each other for years while still being functional members of society. Robinson is showing us the vastness of this undertaking, the number of people and the investment that it would take to develop Mars.

I do wish that Robinson continued with the implied structure of the book that he started with: As the first half opened with the Boone assassination, it would’ve been interesting had the last half of the book opened with the destruction of the elevator (maybe the part where the guy is picked up), and then had the rest of the novel lay out what could’ve gone wrong to bring out such a scenario.

[JohnT]

"Characterization feels a little Arthur C Clarkish (i.e. wooden) sometimes."

If we're comparing KSR to other science fiction writers, I emphatically disagree (otoh, if we're comparing him to Shakespeare or Twain, that's a different story). I think that he did a very credible job of creating different characters, from the emotionally needy Maya, to the politician John, to the disassociated Michel. As I mentioned above, I don't think he did a great job of creating unique voices for his characters, but I think he did a very good job of defining these people.

That evening he went looking for Maya, feeling helpless in the grip of a compulsion. The decision had been made the night before, when Janet said, “She loves you, you know.” And he turned a corner to the dining commons there she was, her head thrown back in the middle of her pealing laugh, vividly Maya, her hair as white it as it had once been black, her eyes fixed on her companion; a man, dark-haired, handsome, perhaps in his fifties, smiling at her. Maya pu a hand to his upper arm, a characteristic gesture, one of her usual intimacies, it meant nothing and in fact indicated that he was not her lover but rather someone she was in the process of enchanting; the could have met just minutes before, although the look on his face indicated he knew her better than that.

She turned and saw Frank, blinked with surprise. She looked back at the man and continued to speak, in Russian, her hand still in his arm.

Frank hesitated and almost turned and left. Silently he cursed himself – was he no more than a schoolboy, then? He walked by them and said hell, did not hear if they replied. All through the dinner she stayed glued to the man’s side, not looking his way, not coming over. The man, pleasant-enough looking, was surprised at her attention, surprised but pleased. Clearly they would leave together, clearly they would spend the night together. That foreknowledge always made people pleasant. She would use people like that without a qualm, the *****. Love… The more he thought about it, the angrier he got. She had never loved anyone but herself. And yet… that look on her face when she first saw him; for a split second hadn’t she been pleased, and then wanted him angry at her? And wasn’t that a sign of hurt feelings, of a desire to hurt back, meaning a certain (incredibly childish) desire for him?

Well, to hell with her. He went back to his room and packed his bag, and took the subway to the train stations, and got on a night train west, up Tharsis to Pavonis Mons.

I found the above passage to ring true and clear, the thoughts of a man who is compelled to reject love, one who will use any reason to drive it from their possession. Frank is truly incapable of changing his nature, and, tragically, glimpses the need to.

I really liked the “Frank” passages: I found that a Mars viewed through his torment was more interesting than the same Mars viewed from John’s need to understand, or Nadia’s need to control.

Oh, the colony ship had 100 people on it.

[Seeker]

I loved (the first) Hyperion by the way, I thought it was the best SF since Dune.

[JohnT]

I do think that Red Mars relied upon a lot of assumptions that likely won't be true by 2026, one being that space flight is relatively common and affordable and that there is a long-term commitment to colonizing Mars by this time.

I have a feeling a lot of people are not going to like how Robinson claims that a stronger UN, by weakening the authority of the nation-states, will allow for stronger multi-national corporations. Robinson does give corporations too much credit for strategic, long-term thinking though.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Damn... I'm still only half-way through (blame finals... which just ended). I'll have to read quick to get through the end in the next few days .

I'm still reading about the sabatoge attempts on the terraformers .

So far, though, here are my thoughts:

1. Robinson shows the problem of having a small grouping of (relatively) equal intellects with no strong leaders. Things factionalize easily because Frank and Maya have no real power. Everyone thinks they are just as good as the leaders (especially that punk Arkady ) and this causes many, many problems.

2. Technology will always win out over environmentalism as least where humans are involved. Ann's vision (which I think is silly) has very little impact on the rest of crew, which wants to change things. Sax has a much bigger following, by far.

More, as I read further .

[St Leo]

Characters I like as people: Saxifrage, Nadia, Arkady, Frank, John
Characters I don't like as people: Michel, Hiroko, Phyllis, Coyote, all the nissei/sansei, Art
Characters I am apathetic towards: Maya, Ann

I haven't read the book since last fall, but maybe I can fake it.

The original is superior mostly because Robinson gets a bit too crazy economics- and society-wise in the sequels. The fact that Saxifrage's character gets ruined in the third book doesn't endear it to me either. However, I prefer the grander scale of the terraforming in the later books. Oh, well.

[chequita guevara]

Some Biblical themes I'd like to mention.

Frank and John are Cain and Able. Not simply because John and Frank are like brothers. Frank is jealous of the easy success of John, like Cain was jealous of Able's place in the sun. While John runs around to the various settlements (Able represents settled people) Frank is largely associated with nomadic Arabs (as Cain represents the pastoral nomads who raided the settled people).

The period of colonization of the 1st 100 is, for the 1st hundred, the Garden of Eden. Everything gets harder when they "leave."

Of course, the Ares is Noah's ark.

The building of the Space Elevator is like the building of the tower of Babel. And they both fell, with disasterous consequences.

After the revolution fails, the 1st hundred are scattered to the wind, i.e., the Jews and Exodus.

Hiroko and her clan are the lost ten tribes.

[Eli]

Che :

And where do other major events like the second elevator and the two wars fit in?

[CyberGnu]

Che: I must say I find the connections impressive, it never occured to me. I'm not entirely convinced, though... Large parts of the OT are in the OT because they make good stories. The conflict between two brothers/friends is one of the oldest stories in all cultures, not only the judaeo-christian.

The connections fit, but it could be purely coincidence...

Of course, even more likely is that Robinson is influenced by 4000 years of storytelling, and in his subconsious many of the themes coincide.

[CyberGnu]

All in all, I love Red Mars. I re-read it every few years or so. I'm quite indifferent to Blue and Green Mars, however, I don't think I even managed to finish the last one.

I think my fashination of RM is the engineering aspects. RM is a textbook example of what hard Sci-Fi is all about. The science feels very real.

The characters... Well, I just found them to be page fillers. Upon re-reading, I usually skip large parts regarding Nayas neuroses, Frank and Johns enmity, EVERYTHING involving Hiroko etc. I just can't care less about their lives and ambitions... There is an entire planet to terraform! Who cares about who sleeps with whom?!!!!!

[CyberGnu]

As a side note, my faorite part of the whole book is Sax experiment with the little windmills, and when it is revelaed that they just don't really do anything, he replies "well, it was worth a try". It feels incredibly real... Half of what I do end up like that. It doesn't work, but we don't know until we try it.

[Odin]

Arkady is funnier than heck! So is Maya's emotional problems with Frank and John.

BTW, John is Minnesotan.

[St Leo]

Some Guide themes I'd like to mention.

Frank and John are Zarniwoop and Zaphod. Frank hates John the way Zarniwoop hates Zaphod's new personality. While John runs around to the various settlements (Zaphods parties all around the galaxy) Frank is largely associated with nomadic Arabs (Zarniwoop hangs with people who are working hard to topple the secret galactic government).

The period of colonization of the 1st 100 is, for the 1st hundred, Krikkit. Everything gets harder when they "leave" and try to take over the entire thing.

Of course, the Ares is Heart of Gold.

The building of the Space Elevator is like the building of the bridge across Squornshellous. And they both fell, with disasterous consequences.

After the revolution fails, the 1st hundred are scattered to the wind, i.e., the teleportation out of the sun-diving ship at the Disaster Area concert.

Hiroko and her clan are the Golgafrinchans.