Powell Says France will Face Consequences for Stannding up to the US

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by DanS
Blair is hitting on the central issue. France trying to set up a rival power to the US, with France as the center, is about the dumbest diplomatic and geopolitical move I have seen in a long time. Why did France try it? Are Chirac and De Villepin that clueless?

I personally think it is one of Chirac's bright ideas. Since his 82% victory last year, he fathoms himself as a stateman rather than a clown.

I personally don't think the constitution of a EU pole is fundamentally a bad idea, but the timing was poor, and the insistance was ludicrous. In the multipolar world that lies before us, the US will act more and more out of egoism and ad-hoc alliances, which will let the European countries no choice but to be crooked by the US, or look for their interests by themselves.
The opposition towards a common rival is the easiest way to achieve a military and diplomatic unity. The US happen to be the most convenient rival, as it is today's undisputed hyperpower.

However, the very idea of having France, or any other country, at the center of the EU pole is utterly stupid. For a pole to emerge, the power structure must be united under a common rule (say, a significant European parliament and an elected executive). The EU can not hope to be a power as long as individual nation states pretend to guide Europe.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Japher
Gepap: Does it reall matter? As long as "consequence" did not mean nothing... which is what was being done.

So what "not nothing" would this be? for Chirac not to get invited to the ranch (poor him...), and for us to keep French companies form bidding in Iraq (lsome legal question to be had)?

GePap: It doesn't mean much. Just going out of our way to deny France the influence that it craves.

And how could we do that, beyond showing that they don;t currently have our ear, which has been true since Bush came into Office anyway?

[TCO]

Originally posted by Spiffor

I personally think it is one of Chirac's bright ideas. Since his 82% victory last year, he fathoms himself as a stateman rather than a clown.

I personally don't think the constitution of a EU pole is fundamentally a bad idea, but the timing was poor, and the insistance was ludicrous. In the multipolar world that lies before us, the US will act more and more out of egoism and ad-hoc alliances, which will let the European countries no choice but to be crooked by the US, or look for their interests by themselves.
The opposition towards a common rival is the easiest way to achieve a military and diplomatic unity. The US happen to be the most convenient rival, as it is today's undisputed hyperpower.

However, the very idea of having France, or any other country, at the center of the EU pole is utterly stupid. For a pole to emerge, the power structure must be united under a common rule (say, a significant European parliament and an elected executive). The EU can not hope to be a power as long as individual nation states pretend to guide Europe.

Common language would help.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by GP
Common language would help.

I don't think it'll happen during my lifetime. Except if everybody agrees to speak French

[TCO]

Those shared conversations may not have leaked any classified information. But they definitely show a betrayal of confidence. The case for excluding France from NATO meetings gets stronger...

[TCO]

Originally posted by Spiffor

I don't think it'll happen during my lifetime. Except if everybody agrees to speak French

You look like you've already converted to the universal language...

[TCO]

dp

[gsmoove23]

All they could possibly show is France trying to convince Iraq to meet security council resolutions by more diplomatic means as opposed to US brinksmanship. I thought the US and France were doing an excellent job of good-cop bad-cop before Bush had to screw it all up by going to war. There is no betrayal evident in that article, only normal diplomatic relations.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by GP
You look like you've already converted to the universal language...

I am speaking English when I'm speaking to foreigners (except Germans, since I speak German too). But I will never abandon my language for the sake of the EU, no matter how diehard European I am.

If you ask for a common working language, that is only used in interactions between foreign people, it will soon be a complete reality, since it is already a reality in most of the educated class.
In Europe, the possible solution will be the adoption of 3 working languages to avoid France and Germany to be pissed and block the idea. From my experience in the European Parliament, most people from a "minority language" speak English, French or German on a daily basis.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Spiffor

I am speaking English when I'm speaking to foreigners (except Germans, since I speak German too). But I will never abandon my language for the sake of the EU, no matter how diehard European I am.

If you ask for a common working language, that is only used in interactions between foreign people, it will soon be a complete reality, since it is already a reality in most of the educated class.
In Europe, the possible solution will be the adoption of 3 working languages to avoid France and Germany to be pissed and block the idea. From my experience in the European Parliament, most people from a "minority language" speak English, French or German on a daily basis.

And of those 3, they speak English by far preferentially.

[Spiffor]

The European parliament, like all the other EU institutions, is located either in Strasbourg or Brussels (the important institutions are located in Brussels, the unimportant ones in Strasbourg, and the Parliament is located in both places ). Both are (partly) French speaking cities.

I was actually surprised so many people were talking French when speaking to foreigners rather than English. Don't forget French is much easier for other latin people to speak (such as Italians and Spaniards), who are a significant chunk of the population.

I'd assume the Commissioners speak mostly in English, but I wouldn't bet my hand on it.

[TCO]

I did an assignment at a Swiss-based international conglomerate. The official language was English. That's what all the documents were in. That's what people would talk unless it was an all native-German speaking group. All official meetings were in English. You may be used to it. But if you step back and look, it is amazing. English is the "lingua franca".

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Spiffor
The EU can not hope to be a power as long as individual nation states pretend to guide Europe.

That's a especially combined with Chirac's view on the role of the EU vs that of the nation-state.

[Myrddin]

And this is where it gets really confusing:

Lingua franca is now an English phrase meaning common language (usually English), which is actually borrowed from the Italian for the French language

English is so successful because it is simple and borrows ideas well

[yago]

I did an assignment at a Swiss-based international conglomerate. The official language was English. That's what all the documents were in. That's what people would talk unless it was an all native-German speaking group. All official meetings were in English. You may be used to it. But if you step back and look, it is amazing. English is the "lingua franca".

You know, that english consists to 60% of French ???

Well, anyway, English, as bastard between French and German, is by far the easiest language to learn. So, it's way easier to learn as italian, swedish or dutch.