The Best: Civ3 or CTP2?

[hexagonian]

dp

[David Murray]

Hehe!

Brings a smile to my face, thinking about people who think CTP2 is better than Civ3 will be.

Fortunately, they are a small minority and once the rest of us are happily playing Civ3, we'll leave BOTH of the CTP2 fanatics (yes, all two of them!) to their own devices.

[Immortal Wombat]

It brings a smile to my face when I think of all the poor tired Civ2 players who are resting so many hopes on Civ3, but are going to receive a cross between AoK and Civ2, with none of the features that make the CtP series even faintly superior to Civ2.

[Pedrunn]

Originally posted by David Murray
Hehe!

Brings a smile to my face, thinking about people who think CTP2 is better than Civ3 will be.

Fortunately, they are a small minority and once the rest of us are happily playing Civ3, we'll leave BOTH of the CTP2 fanatics (yes, all two of them!) to their own devices.

If we continue playing CTP2 is because we think CTP2 is better although you can think the other way around.

Have you ever play CTP2 modded anyway?

[Chronus]

Fortunately, they are a small minority and once the rest of us are happily playing Civ3, we'll leave BOTH of the CTP2 fanatics (yes, all two of them!) to their own devices.

You people are too much!

[splangy]

im gona post this in the civ3 forum to see what happens

IW Said
"It brings a smile to my face when I think of all the poor tired Civ2 players who are resting so many hopes on Civ3, but are going to receive a cross between AoK and Civ2, with none of the features that make the CtP series even faintly superior to Civ2."

well, ctp3 might be like that to, ooops i forgot, you all rested your hopes on a pathetic game that none will make a sequal to and has no support, looks like your mad that civ3 is getting alot of attention and not C(rap) T(o) P(lay).


hexagon- gee, ya think thats becouse civ was created 5 years ago ?besides, ive payed some of the mods and i can tell you, the AI still sucks, it can bareley play any better modded, a (small) group of people on these forums think that and they are alone, plus what this community does has very little impact on the ctp comunity as a whole, but its not like anyone plays multiplay any more.

thats another thing, multiplay for this game died ALONG time ago, whats left is a few 10 year olds who boot you when you take a city from them, thats if enough people can play long enough to get as far as meeting each other.

pedrun- agreed, you can all do what you want, the civers will do what we want, thanks for bringing a little composure to this thread,

JESUS CHRIST why the hell did everyone get so hostile with me, its a discussion, its not me who posted it here and everyone gets REALLY pissed off with me, it wasn't my idea to start this topic, it was my light hearted joke that started it, now your acting as if i came in and anounced that civ3 is better without any support, then made fun of you. i came in for a freindly disscusion, if no one wants that any more than ill just leave. be civilized (no pun intended)

[rooboy]

Relax mate, and have a quiet one.

[Immortal Wombat]

Originally posted by splangy
IW Said
"It brings a smile to my face when I think of all the poor tired Civ2 players who are resting so many hopes on Civ3, but are going to receive a cross between AoK and Civ2, with none of the features that make the CtP series even faintly superior to Civ2."

well, ctp3 might be like that to, ooops i forgot, you all rested your hopes on a pathetic game that none will make a sequal to and has no support, looks like your mad that civ3 is getting alot of attention and not C(rap) T(o) P(lay).

No, I'm quite content to have just a small group playing CtP2, and I don't care if its not followed up with CtP3. I had no hopes rested on this game either, look at my registration date, I only found Apolyton two months after the game was released. I think Civ3 will be a good game, and probably well worth playing, but I fail to see how Civ3 can provide a challenging AI where everything before it has failed. I just think a few people, especially in the civ3 forums, are missing enough scepticism to deal with the reality that Civ3 won't be the classic civ2 was, because 70% of it has been seen before, and the AI still wont beat you.

(I'm not being hostile at you, I like a discussion too)

[Pedrunn]

Splangy,
So what if there will never be a CTP3. Many civers are playing civ2 during many years without really think about civ3 since last year.

You do sound agressive sometimes but if someone feels insulted he does not deserve to participate in a debate forum.
Rooboy made a really good point in the above post.

Too bad you did not like CTP2.
After all, what problem you saw in the AI of the modded games?

[hexagonian]

Splangy

Funny, I do not sense any hostility here - I merely point out the inconsistancies in your arguments. Maybe it is you who are feeling hostile when those issues are brought to light...

For instance, I am guessing that one of the problems you have regarding CTP2 is an AI that does not think either strategically or tactically regarding its military - doing idiotic attacks, not attacking when it should, and so forth. Yet in a civ3 thread, you make the same complaint about civ2 - and judging from other posts in that thread, you are not the only one.

You state that you have played the modded games, but in an earlier post you state that you only have played the Apolyton Pack. I will be totally honest here in saying that other than a few games in TOT, I have not played civ2. I have however played SMAC, which uses the same basic platform as civ2, so I do speak with some insight. And I lurk in a lot of the threads and read what other players are saying regarding the ease in which they can now beat civ2.

I play CTP because of preference issues.

Do you generally find that as a player, you can also consistantly beat the AI on Deity in an unmodded civ2 game - if not, then your best bet is to wait for civ3. On the flipside though, I have heard from experienced civ2 players who struggle to defeat the AI in CTP2 Modded.

And if you are able to beat civ2, then your hopes for civ3 will all be pinned on whether the AI is truly been revolutionized. All the new features will not mean much if you can walk over the AI.

The issue with the AI is really the critical one too. There is very much a blind spot in the hearts of civ players regarding civ3. Part of the problem is that civ2 was a revolutionary game. It does have a large and loyal fan base - and deservedly so. But many of the player have mastered the game through sheer repetition of play and through info available here on the forums - so they will need a challenge.

The second problem is 'The List'. 500 pages of fan-based suggestions sent to Firaxis is very good (and needed), but what it may do is create a second blind spot for players. They have invested a lot of effort into those suggestions, and will be tied to the game because of the fact that they see some of those suggestions implemented. So they will continue to play the game, consistently beat it, but thoroughly enjoy the game because they will feel they had a part in the development of it. Yes, its ironic because we here in the CTP2 Mod community feel the same way about our creations.

I've said it enough times too - Activision shot themselves in the foot with a premature release of CTP2. But I am happy with the ease to modify the game, and their blunders do not deter from my enjoyment of the game (at least not anymore).

[splangy]

Originally posted by hexagonian
Splangy

Funny, I do not sense any hostility here - I merely point out the inconsistancies in your arguments. Maybe it is you who are feeling hostile when those issues are brought to light...

For instance, I am guessing that one of the problems you have regarding CTP2 is an AI that does not think either strategically or tactically regarding its military - doing idiotic attacks, not attacking when it should, and so forth. Yet in a civ3 thread, you make the same complaint about civ2 - and judging from other posts in that thread, you are not the only one.

You state that you have played the modded games, but in an earlier post you state that you only have played the Apolyton Pack. I will be totally honest here in saying that other than a few games in TOT, I have not played civ2. I have however played SMAC, which uses the same basic platform as civ2, so I do speak with some insight. And I lurk in a lot of the threads and read what other players are saying regarding the ease in which they can now beat civ2.

I play CTP because of preference issues.

Do you generally find that as a player, you can also consistantly beat the AI on Deity in an unmodded civ2 game - if not, then your best bet is to wait for civ3. On the flipside though, I have heard from experienced civ2 players who struggle to defeat the AI in CTP2 Modded.

And if you are able to beat civ2, then your hopes for civ3 will all be pinned on whether the AI is truly been revolutionized. All the new features will not mean much if you can walk over the AI.

The issue with the AI is really the critical one too. There is very much a blind spot in the hearts of civ players regarding civ3. Part of the problem is that civ2 was a revolutionary game. It does have a large and loyal fan base - and deservedly so. But many of the player have mastered the game through sheer repetition of play and through info available here on the forums - so they will need a challenge.

The second problem is 'The List'. 500 pages of fan-based suggestions sent to Firaxis is very good (and needed), but what it may do is create a second blind spot for players. They have invested a lot of effort into those suggestions, and will be tied to the game because of the fact that they see some of those suggestions implemented. So they will continue to play the game, consistently beat it, but thoroughly enjoy the game because they will feel they had a part in the development of it. Yes, its ironic because we here in the CTP2 Mod community feel the same way about our creations.

I've said it enough times too - Activision shot themselves in the foot with a premature release of CTP2. But I am happy with the ease to modify the game, and their blunders do not deter from my enjoyment of the game (at least not anymore).

before i answer i just wanna say cradle was a really good mod, probably the best i tried.

the hostility i sensed was not becouse im afraid im wrong, i just thought some people were starting to get anrgy.

NO game has an AI that is great, what i posted there is true x3 for ctp, your mod was good, but it was to easy to beat the AI in all ctp mods, the game was a peice of crap, and no matter how good you are you cant make roses from crap.

like i said, i played your mod and apoliton, i would have done med mod, but it was a ***** to install.

actually i do struggle to beat the civ2 AI above king, but i have won many a game against a imposible ( ) ctp AI. its not becouse its bad, just becouse i can use tactics that you cant teach an AI.

civ3 with resources culture etc will require entirly new strats, ics and occ wont work any more.

again, the AI should be improved, and most probably will, infact they have said that they will already, howwever the game cant be mastered using the same old tequniques (sp?), your gona need new strats.

umm the 500 page list contained so many ideas that if they hadn't implemented any it wouldn't have changed from civ 2.

all in all activision dosen't honestly care what you think, they got some money, they dont have to support you anymore, they just create a diffent game witch will have nothing to do with ctp, you all will mod the game to the point were NONE of it original files exist. you basically bought a thirty $$$ jumble of programming.

but your content doing that, im content playing civ, MODDED(fascist mod), but i always know i can go back to good ole unmoded civ2 and have fun.

go to civ3 forum for more reasons, i think ill post this in civ2's forum and see how they react.

[Xerxes2]

... can't make roses from crap, eh? You must not be a gardener. A little horses**t on the roses does wonders.

I JUST got CTP2 working on my machine. I bought it when it came out and spent about $1300 US to get it working, with no success. I finally did an upgrade of my video board and voila! it works. And I'm having fun with it now. I did use the mods I've found for which anyone who worked on one of them and reads this, Thanks for all your time and effort.

I am one of those who are waiting with bated breath for the RELEASE. When it comes I'll be right down standing in line with the rest of you. Having said that, I note that the ONLY game which has stood the real test of time is SMAC/SMAX. I've played them since they came out and still waste entirely too much time playing SMAX.

I note that those games which were not successful did teach things to the programmers who created them. The level of gameplay has steadily advanced. Those who rail at the AI lack should try to create an AI which does the job. It isn't as easy as it looks. And if we in the programmer community could really create something so much better it would be in there, you bet.

Remember that all game development is a trade-off between better code and the money which that code must generate. I do NOT rail at the game developers. It's their bread and butter we're talking about. I think if they COULD do so much better they WOULD.

[Sarxis]

Hmm...

Real cheese (CIV III)? or processed cheese (ctp2)?
What a tough- and sarcastic- choice.


To quote a favorite American commercial:

"wimpy, wimpy, wimpy... (ctp2)
HEAFTY! HEAFTY! HEAFTY! (CIV III)
wimpy... (ctp2)

HEAFTY!! (CIV III)

wimpy... (ctp2)

HEAFTY!! (CIV III)"

[MarkG]

thank you for improving this discussion with your arguments Anunikoba....

[Immortal Wombat]

Originally posted by Anunikoba
Hmm...

Real cheese (CIV III)? or processed cheese (ctp2)?
What a tough- and sarcastic- choice.

and to follow the anology to its conclusion. Is there greater satisfaction in eating the cheese, or making and eating the cheese?