Cradle 1.2

[Pedrunn]

Oooops! It worthed the shot anyway .

[kaigun]

Question well actually two questions and an observation
1)How difficult is it to get super large maps like in the Appolyton pack into Cradle..the games better in Cradle
2)Are Pedrunns Pop changes so cities respnd to unit production worlkable in Cradle cos they sound neat
And observation Why does the map effect the AI so greatly Im playing a new game with even balance on setup andlarge continents..... Since the start Ive had sea battles raids and pillaging stacks of 12 AI ships and constant sniping or war basically great But before Island map Large Islands but I saw NO Naval activity and I eventually gave up out of boredom other maps Ive had also have greatly seemed to influence the AI...they should but the extent is strange so much that a good game depends greatly on the map....

[hexagonian]

Thanks for the observations kaigun,

Are you saying that keeping the settings in the middle of the sliders (middle ocean/middle continent seems to give you plenty of naval action. If so, this may be what players need to be using. I do not know why the other settings do not give you these results - in fact, I would of expected more naval action as the oceans were enlarged. And as far as I can tell, I have not seen anything in the files to change, based on map settings. I would expect that a smaller map would give more naval action though. The percentages for naval units are at about 15-18% of a total AI force (these are comparable to MedMod), but with a large ocean, the chances of running into a large naval stack are smaller, due to the fact that there is so much more ocean to cover.

The function that Pedrunn mentioned is a SLIC operation, so unless somebody is willing to create the file, I cannot do it myself. I do have some reservations about it, as I do not know if the AI can be programmed with a check and balance setup to prevent it from inadvertantly shinking all its cities due to the ongoing creation of units.

Well, the current update is up and you will be happy - read on.


CRADLE UPDATE 9_12
http://www.geocities.com/hexagonia/

1. This update WILL require Martin's GoodMod. If you have not downloaded it already, I have the graphics/sounds/sprites in the Cradle section, along with the needed text files in my Update Zip file. If you have downloaded it, the changes are all included in the Update file - you will not need the graphics file.
2. Ultra-Gigantic map option, as per ApolytonPack is now included.
3. Immortal Wombat's Disaster coding included.
4. Minor adjustment on late Modern/Future units Firepower/Armor settings.
5. Adjustments in strategies text, which enable Barbarians to start with Tyranny and progress through the governments. (I basically copied the militaristic settings into the Barbarian settings) I would suggest that you make a backup of the existing strategies.txt file (place it in the CRA_working files folder).
6. 5 new Tile improvements
6a. Pasture - early ancient farm
6b. Latifundia - mid ancient commerce/farm
6c. Mine Shaft - mid ancient production
6d. Watch Tower - mid ancient observation
6e. Sea Base - future fortification
In addition, the enable advance for Fortification has been moved to Masonry.

Please post here for any problems

The files have been tested to make sure that they will launch a game - To be honest though, I have not felt like playing this week due to the recent tragedy here in the States

[kaigun]

Tried to launch after download but failed ..Error CRASounds not found in Asset tree or something like that.....tried to edit asset tree but that just gave bigger problems?????

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by kaigun
Tried to launch after download but failed ..Error CRASounds not found in Asset tree or something like that.....tried to edit asset tree but that just gave bigger problems?????

Unfortunatly there are more problems. Not only CRA_sounds.txt is missing but also CRA_soundfix.slc. For me it was no problem to replace these files, because they were allready part of GoodMod. But there are other problems: Missing Great Library entries for the new goods and the good improving process failed. So far I was able to soöve these problems for my setup. I emailed the altered files to Hexagonian, yesterday. Of course without Cra_soundfix.slc and CRA_sounds.txt, because I know he has allready working versions of these files. But there is a last thing all the graphics material for the crossbowman unit are missing.

I don't know how fast Hex will be to update Cradle therefore I will attach a file for you kaigun with the altered text files. The *.zip file does not contain a file tree structure therefore you have to put every file by hand into the right directories. All files except the Great_Library.txt go into the ..\ctp2_data\default\gamedata\ folder. The Great_Library.txt goes into the ..\ctp2_data\english\gamedata\ folder.

Unfortunatly I have no pictures for the Crossbowman, therefore you need replacement graphics to avoid game crashes. The disadvantage is that the game uses the wrong graphics for a unit but it will work. Now go the ..\ctp2_data\default\graphics\sprites\ folder and coppy one of the unit sprites like guXXX.spr and rename the coppied sprited to gu188.spr. Now go to the ..\ctp2_data\default\graphics\pictures\ folder and coppy a file like UPUPXXXA.tga, UPUPXXXB.tga and UPUPXXXL.tga
and rename the coppied files to UPUP188A.tga, UPUP188B.tga and UPUP188L.tga. Just make shure that all the original files have the same number.

To give us the correct graphics for the crossbowman is Hex's task not my. Therefore you have to wait for an official update but with my help you can now play cradle without gamecrashes.

-Martin

[hexagonian]

Sorry about that - thanks for the updates Martin. Please let me know if there are still any missing files too - I will double-check them this weekend again. I also had been keeping all of the ZIP files on my system at work, somehow they all got deleted, so I may have to backtrack.



Seems I lost track of some of my updates, and forgot also that players may not have been downloading all of the updates as they have been posted.

I have included all of the missing text files in the most current update on my site, plus an additional download that will have the tgas for the crossbow, warrior, and longship, which were causing conflicts with the MedMod. There is also a ZIP file that replaces the old units if you have MedMod on your system too, so there will no longer be any more missing files for that Mod.

I plan on updating the complete download file too, in the near future.

[hexagonian]

Some things to report from some test runs on the current update. And if I am still missing files for some reason in the current Update, post them here.

This may make you happy Kull...

The barbarians are now happily pillaging. They have taken out a couple of goods (GoodMod additions) and are also pillaging improvements when I have built them. Bottom line, they are a REAL irritant now. So military buildup at the beginning of the game is vital, because if you simply ignore them, hoping to wait them out from the occasional attack on a city, you will pay if you build tile improvements - your military cannot just sit in your cities anymore.

I took a Harrapan city in the early going, and the Barbs took it from me. I took it back and then the Barbs took another city. Running through the cheat mode to see what they were doing revealed that they were in Tyranny and researching Projectile Weapons. They were also working on building a Baazar. I figure that any science accumulated will be lost if the barbarians do not have any cities - they may have to start again. However, if AI cities are lost to slave revolts, this should help the Barbarians maintain a competitive edge in a long game, since there is every indication that they are working as a civ now. The priorities are still vey basic for them in terms of what they will do (attacking, seigeing, pillaging), but it seems that they are doing it rather well now.

It remains to be seen if the Coracle issue has been resolved (having a city that revolted be full of Coracles), but I also had cut down on the chances of a slave revolt.

Any outside observations from other players will be appreciated.

[hexagonian]

Another small update from Martin regarding the Good Mod. The Main Update has been updated on my site, as well as the availability of a small zip file if you had already downloaded the update in the last couple of days.

Here's Martin's info on what it does.

''I found some errors in the CRA_Great_Library and CRA_tileimp.txt concerning the the goods Uranium and Olives. Furthermore I was able to add a code to the CRA_Goods.txt that causes pillaged goods to remain their improved status after a certain period of time. This period of time depends on the settings in the CRA_tileimp.txt for ConstructionTime. Therefore all goods will now remain their improved status after ten turns, of course you are free to change these settings. And I improved the code in another way: Now neutral tile improvements can't be pillaged. Instead of causing a crash the pillage trial fails and the pillaging unit looses a move point and the ability to pillage again in the current turn. For the AI it wasn't a problem, because it doesn't pillage neutral goods, but the human can do it and causes than the crash. And at least I removed the Welcome to GoodMod message, as I see no more need for it, because that is now less important as the possible crash was. Therefore you can remove the file CRA_GoodMod.txt_str.txt from your mod it is now useless.''

[kaigun]

thanks for the help and many thanks for the update.....Now playing on the super large map with 18 countries ...everything is going fine ....for me I'm playing the Egyptians the Aztecs seem to be hit by earthquakes a lot...early in the game my cities were decimated by disease which took long to recover from....lots of wars especially with the Celts ....you can never trust a (ai)celt.....city revolts still happen but with my settings they have become new nations started with 18 now have 22...and the AI doesnt seem to mind attacking them as much....but generally the AI is fine on attacks in the field but seems more than a little timid about assaulting a city more than once Ive taken a city my army bruised and depleted to find near it two or three stacks of celts who then instead of launching an easy counterattack meekly slip@away....against that in the open(outside of city) Ive had strong stacks attacked ferociously...Im still new to this and reading all the slic advice then Ill see if I can change that factor ....Oh not seen any coracles yet...

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by kaigun
....you can never trust a (ai)celt.....city revolts still happen but with my settings they have become new nations started with 18 now have 22...and the AI doesnt seem to mind attacking them as much....

I had the same problems in GoodMod for Apolyton Pack. One city of an AI revolted and became a new nation. It (the Greeks) was at war with its old mother AI (the Mongols). Instead of reconquering the Mongols attacked my cities. BTW these cities where also former Mongol cities, my spies caused a little revolution in both cities. And I conquered them. That showed me that the Mongols had enough troops to wipe out the Greeks, because they conquered one of my "new" cities and I had more troops in it than the Greeks in their city.

Therefore I took a look into the APOL_strategies.txt and I saw that the goal chokepoint had a very low priority of -1000. Unfortunatly I couldn't find a full translation for it, but I guess from the partly translation that I got that it has to do something with civ killing. So I increased the priority for that goal in every AI stratigy dramatically.

And the result was that the Mongols conquered Greece. This AI did its job, that was the first time in Call to Power that I saw an AI wipe out another AI.

Another issure that I saw in APOL is that the AI can't make cities fully surrounded by mountains grow, maybe I should increase the terrain food value for mountain cities, that's the reason why I wait a little bit with my update for GoodMod.

-Martin

[hexagonian]

kaigun,
You said that you had also made some additional changes...
Did you make any changes to the userprofile.txt to get the Barbarians to convert to a civ? The reason why I'm asking is that there is a line in that file which allows you to change that attribute
Maxplayer=0
but when I had changed it, I get the ongoing message that global warming is about to engulf the world.

Originally posted by Martin Gühmann
Therefore I took a look into the APOL_strategies.txt and I saw that the goal chokepoint had a very low priority of -1000. Unfortunatly I couldn't find a full translation for it, but I guess from the partly translation that I got that it has to do something with civ killing. So I increased the priority for that goal in every AI stratigy dramatically.

And the result was that the Mongols conquered Greece. This AI did its job, that was the first time in Call to Power that I saw an AI wipe out another AI.

Martin,
What did you change the priority to? And did you do it mid-game?

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by hexagonian
Did you make any changes to the userprofile.txt to get the Barbarians to convert to a civ? The reason why I'm asking is that there is a line in that file which allows you to change that attribute
Maxplayer=0
but when I had changed it, I get the ongoing message that global warming is about to engulf the world.

I changed the setting to
MaxPlayers=21

I only got the message or some of them at the beginning of the game.

Originally posted by hexagonian
Martin,
What did you change the priority to? And did you do it mid-game?

I used numbers between 100000 and 610000. And I did it mid-game.

I also tried to make the AI build more transportships, but so far no real succes. The AI build only the cheapest transport units and doesn't use them. I thought the AI hadn't enough transport capacity to start an invasion over the sea, maybe I didn't saw enough, yet. I only saw that the Indians came accross water and conquered an AI city maybe a small success.

Here is modified CRA_strategies.txt. I put the changes concerning the chokepoint goal and the Klaus Kaan's pollution settings into it. Now the AI will clean up pollution. Something that was forgotten in Cradle and Apolyton Pack. My changes about the transport capacity are not in that file.

Now here is another interesting issure:

// try to decrease food
SliderElement { Delta 2 Food }
SliderElement { Delta 1 Production }
SliderElement { Delta 1 Gold }

So far I guess that prevents the AI from maxing out the sliders, but I didn't tried it yet to increase the numbers.

-Martin

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by Martin Gühmann
I used numbers between 100000 and 610000.

I guess 610000 for default militarist was a little bit too high. Civs that are using the Stalin personality moved their settlers around instead of settling, therefore I reduced the number to 500000 for default militarist and atteck.

Here are my current sliders settings for all strategies:

//
//  WORKDAY, GOLD, FOOD SLIDER SETTINGS (WGF)
//

// set how unhappy our most unhappy city be
MinimumHappiness    72 //from 73

// set maximum deficit spending percent (ie. spend no more than
// 10% of our savings each turn)
DeficitSpending     0.1

// set maximum percent of gold that should ever be spent on wages to not choke science
MaximumWagePercent  0.30

// try to decrease food
SliderElement { Delta 3 Food }
SliderElement { Delta 10 Production }
SliderElement { Delta 3 Gold }

The AI maxout the sliders really now, but if the happiness level drop under 72 in one AI city. The AI will use the sliders to compensate it instead of using entertainers. Maybe I have also to play a little bit with the entertainer settings. I watch the AIs with the cheat editor in one trial game and they had a really good start. But I guess I have to set the minimum happiness to something like MinimumHappiness 65. So that the AIs have to use entertainers and happiness buildings. Maybe if the happiness drops under a certain value a happiness improvement should added via slic to the build queue.

-Martin

[hexagonian]

Realizing that the AI seemed to not use the empire slider settings in the default game, Cradle was set up to make it hard for the human to do so also. To this end, I had reduced the margin of riots by implimenting the following adjustment - making the use of sliders more difficult for the human player.

1. A chance of a riot starts at 74 instead of at 71.
2. Additional happiness penalties of (-3) per negative click on the slider, as opposed to a (+2) happiness bonus for positive clicks. (Default is-1/+1) In certain governments, that penalty is steeper on certain sliders.
3. Reduction in the benefit of moving the slider, You will get less benefits than in the default game.

The end result is that the player, in the ealy game can use the sliders in a limited fashion, but the gains are very small, and are usually in one area only. Later in the game, the gains are greater, but it is very hard to gain in two areas - you will have to choose where you need the gain. Gone are the days when a player can make huge gains via the sliders without sacrifice - the use of entertainers are more critical to do so.

I actually like what was accomlished in my setup, because it did not bother me too much that the AI does not max out the sliders - what bothered me was the ease that the human could do so. And what determines what is the most pressing need for the AI? Should it focus on gold, growth or production, and when should it do so? I actually would rather see the AI use entertainers to achieve a happiness balance as the situation warrants, because less is lost if a couple of entertainers are used instead of using the slider and having an-empire wide loss in some area.

The one area I would like to see the AI use the sliders is if it has the margin to do so - if moving the slider will not cause the AI to fall in a riot state.

[Martin Gühmann]

Unfortunatly I only found PopAssignmentElements for top/bottom growth, production and gold cities. A PopAssignmentElement for top/bottom happiness cities is missing.

The problem with your and Wes' settings as well is that the player is kept from negative clicks and the AI as well, but the human will try everything to stay on zero cklicks for all sliders. But the AI will use them to cure happiness by using positive clicks.

So far I am using: MinimumHappiness 65

Some AIs max out the sliders even if some cities riots and other AIs don't max out the slider although they have no cities that would riot.

The problem is that this AI strategy will cause the AI falling behind you in techs and economy. It is only a question of time. Also with my minimum happiness settings the AI use the sliders to fight againts riots.

The slic file that adds in riot cities a building that will increase happiness is now working only a small modification that will make it only work for the AIs is missing.

Maybe a happiness cheat for the AI could push the delvelopement of AI civs.

-Martin