More Tricks and Exploits

[jpww]

Originally posted by david42one
Ok guys, something just occurred to me and I'd like to hear your thoughts. When I'm about to build a wonder, I'll almost always start building something expensive, like a cathedral. Then, when there is one turn left, I'll switch to a wonder, so that my opponents have less time to compete with me for it. Is this cheating?

Only if there's a rule stating that you are not allowed to do this.

I'm starting to sound like someone I know

[Gavrushka]

I think they may pass a new law JPWW.....

[Dr. Doom1]

Gavrushka, this discussion is just about over.

I don't know what your definition of cheating is, because you haven't stated it. And frankly I suspect you won't. In my country people are innocent until proven guilty, except in rare circumstances, like when someone is caught red-handed with burglary tools.

For me, there are at least three situations in which a person can be said to have cheated: 1) Where a pre-arranged agreement on rules has been broken; 2) where someone lies about a trick they are using. 3) Where circumstantial evidence of cheating is amassed and no reasonable alternative explanation is forthcoming.

Now you might disagree with my definition about what constitutes cheating, but frankly that doesn't concern me. To answer your question specifically, in the games I am about to post, there was NO prior agreement to ban ramp-up swapping. So, if you need something to fall on top of you before you can see it, then you can leave this discussion satisfied that you saw nothing.

However, unethical behavior, lying about using a practise, and a mass of suspicious evidence count for anything, then my case is not so easy to dismiss.

On to the posted games....

Dr. Doom

[Grandpa Troll]

Better hope Solver dont see this thread DrDoom, I got 3 days for SIMPLY REPLYING THREE TIMES in a row to 3 different posts!!

I see where you P O S T E D three in a row..hmm..maybe he will be more lenient..perhaps..but you are getting into it with his pal Gavrushka

Ifin only we could somehow monitor what Solver and Gavrushka talk about, in private..


To prove my point..llokie what My Solver Hall HeadMaster said to me

Troll

ACS CTP/AC PBEM Ladder Admin, Interview Chief
Latvia, Riga

Sep 2000

03-05-2002 16:22



Troll, really, enough, you've spammed this to hell. Gotta delete some posts now - posting this much rhetoric in this many posts in a row... Sorry Troll, see you in three days, for now your posting rights are restricted.

Last day of the entry!


__________________
Solver the "Running Beer"

are you daring me to make a "which civ games have you played" in the ot and also have a "none" option? - Markos Giannopoulos, 08.07.01.

Last edited by Solver on 03-05-2002 at 16:30


I am just warning you, so you dont get blindsided as I did, and get booked away without warning, afterall, YOU DID post three in a row

Troll

[Paulno1]

i just thought about the tourney map game for a minute, I had 3 triple mono's operating and many other mono's going and dozens of advanced mines. Hence i was making a lot of gold per turn probbaly 1000 gold being saved per turn for a long time. I have allready said how i dont like spending money in commi very much cause its so expensive. So quite possibly i just saved up 17000 gold over a period of tiem and didnt spend it, perhaps this may not be the smartest move. But i probably had some small cities i could have rushed buyed mills but i didnt. Cause im kinda tight. I rush buy graneries and mills but generally not much more. Allso rush buy markets and banks in trade cities sometimes. But thats almost allways before commi. I allso noticed in the last couple of games i also saved up well over 10 k. Thats with making a hell of a lot less gold per turn than in the game with yoda. Hence the most likely reason for the 17 gold is probably the simplest. I earnt a lot of money and didnt spend it (-:, it MAY not be smart but it certainly aint a crime. I allso like to rush buy airports in trade cities when the time arises. Due to trade cities often not being able to build them very fast.

Quite amazing i didnt think of this before, i often get quite lazy and cant be bothered looking at what my newer cities are doing, so this must also be cheating as well hmmm:

As for competing against Paul in the tournament, I have played Paul many times, and while I have recently questioned his committment to honest play, I doubt very much that there will be any problems. In fact I'm looking forward to playing him. Honest or not he is still an excellent CTP player in his own right.

Well this might come of some surprise to you doom but your aquisations kinda annoyed me and i do hold a grudge. Actually I did not cheat in anyway and did not use the ramping , so as for ever playing me again you can .


I still havent decided whether i will reenter the tourney. 1000US is $2200NZ which is a lot of money that would buy me a new puter

[faded glory]

Now Im with Dr.Doom here...I think Paul was actively cheating here. If so, as CTP-Tourney president I vote to remove paul from the list. But I havent read all the posts, and I promise to do so tommorrow. But now.....back to Beer. Delicous beer.

Anybody else watchin airforce one?

[Dr. Doom1]

Hold on faded glory. I hope that was more beer than brain speaking.

Under NO circumstances do I want to see Paul banned from the tournament. Paul is still an excellent CTP player, as I've said, and he and Yoda are the primary contenders for the title of World's Best CTP Player. I only wish Paul would understand the importance of a stronger committment to honesty and integrity and fair play.

For a long time now I considered this guy a friend, and Paul is right about one thing: we have had some epic CTP battles. I am going to sorely miss them.....

Dr. Doom

[faded glory]

lol since when is there a president of the tourney? Of course I was joking man. I do say that I think paul cheated tho.

[Paulno1]

thanks for your confidence faded
i appreciate your supprt
ive allready quit the tourney by the way

[faded glory]

What kind of voters would elect a derelict like me to manage a tourney?

Oh paul, you cant quit! Your FIRED!

[Dr. Doom1]

To my CTP friends:

Oh man, I've really screwed up. Believe me, having Paul withdraw from the tournament is not what I had anticipated or wanted. All I hoped for was a fair playing field, one where the tournament would be won by skill and fair play, and not by trickery.

I was exasperated with you Paul, because you weren't up front with me when you should have been. But I can't participate in the tournament without you, and I doubt that yoda could either.

As of right now I will cease and desist my postings at Apolyton.

Dr. Doom

[Gavrushka]

Thanks for posting Paul - and I think that Doom has matched my contribution as regards prize money - Stop press, maybe he didn't...

Faded is barking at the full moon again! Can I say that about a man the size of a house and live?

My definition of evidence Doom is the thing we are talking about - your opinions and interpretations are NOT evidence- and also your attempts to gode me with personal attacks are not evidence, as regards whether Paul ever ramped in other games - I personally feel that Rush-Buy Switching is rush buy switching however it is used... so the evidence can only come from the saves of the game of the pre-made map in MY opinion.... Now note - here I use the word opinion- that means thats what I think - There is a difference between this and evidence - You have throughout this set yourself as Judge, Prosecutor and Jury, you have reached a verdict - you refer to the 'exhibit A' stuffed in your pocket - You could have posted saves straight away, but now days have gone by and nothing... I for one no longer believe a word you say, and I think it has got to the point where you have been flogging a dead horse for so long you don't know where to stop - I am kind of staggered you arrive at Apolyton, and from the very first post made relentless attempts to assassinate the character of somebody who has been posting here on and off for many months- Maybe it is the way in your country, wherever that may be, to form a lynch mob and attempt to destroy a reputation based on 'something fishy' - and now it appears after page after page of posting - you are making a dramatic exit without ever supplying a scrap of evidence... Understand something - we have an unwritten code of ethics here which precludes this place as an individuals soap box to spread rumours and half truths presented as facts..

As regards my definition of cheating - you send the evidence to a moderator, they check against the rules for that game, and report their findings after consulting with other people. Accussations are made privately until the findings are revealed by the independant moderator.

Your dramatic exit from apolyton is a 2 edged sword to me, I am pleased insofar as you have done nothing to contribute to this community, apart from rip apart the competition, but it is always sad to see somebody leave, as I am sure you could have equally made positive contributions, and even found, despite your prejudged opinions otherwise, we are a good bunch of people, and have some very good players here..

[quinns]

Originally posted by Dr. Doom1
Oh man, I've really screwed up.

You sure did. Let this be a lesson to others who accuse people on a whim. In a way, maybe this was good for the community. That is, PLEASE DON'T ACCUSE ANYONE UNLESS YOU ARE SURE OF YOUR ACCUSATION AND HAVE PROOF TO BACK IT UP!

Damn it, there goes Paulno1. Now we have a tournament without possibly the best player. I will still play but... DAMN!

[blackice]

SOOOOOOOO why did Paul quit? Paul why did you quit? Heh takes more than this to tap your personality...so why did you quit?

The tourney is going to be moderated with a microsocpe it is only fair with all the cash on hand. So not likely anyone will cheat and get away with it.

Doom is trying to make a case but we need the game files Dr. Doom without it we have nothing to go on. This game in question has nothing to do with the tourney at all, I will make this clear: each and every turn will be viewed under a microscope by at least 5 players min. Not much will get by that I assure you So play people what is the fear?

My opinion is let Doom continue I see no harm in it. He has yet to send the files without it we see words.

But no harm at all, how many of us have been accused we are still here and still playing.

[faded glory]

size of a house gav? Get lost man...